hmmm, the bow base dmg+augs is not calculated the same as base dmg+augs+arrow since the bow delay is directly affected by haste/quick time/group guard, etc..... where arrow dmg is not configured into that equation. So technically when someone posted that 15dmg bow with 8 dmg arrow does same dmg as 20dmg bow with 3dmg arrow would be incorrect. Imperial messenger still outperformers any group drop items in Sebillis and EoK outside of the world rare, that proc alone will not make up the DPS loss, it would be handy to have one while you are using IF/SM with Pure, but only then and would swap back out to Imperial unless of course you have rare or Grace.
Try it then. Change your bow and arrow and augs around, so that you are using different values for them, but they all have the same damage total. After each change, check to see your hit values and hit distribution. It only takes a minute or two to see what your max hit is on a combat dummy. Its a VERY easy test to run, which I did in this very thread. Bear in mind, no one is making any claims about DPS - only hit damage. Delay is not a factor in hit damage, only in DPS.
Since it was mentioned, an Imperial Messenger is a 185 damage, 23 delay bow. According to the raidloot.com page (http://www.raidloot.com/Search.aspx?type=Weapon_Range&order=WeaponRatio&class=Ranger) it is the third highest ratio bow. I”m not sure why it would be a surprise that it “outperformers any group drop Items in Sebilis and EoK outside of the world rare.” Not only that, but it is a raid item from TBM, and (except for the EoK rare raid-quality drops) generally speaking, group gear from EoK is not quite as good as raid gear from TBM. Also, the thing’s 23 delay is not met or bested until you look down to the TDS raid bow, which matches it, or the Darkened Wind Saber at 22 delay. Meaning, most of the bows in the early portion of the list gain less ratio from the arrow and augs than the Imperial Messenger (and the TDS raid bow only gains an equal amount from them). Taking the bows, and adding 46 damage for raid bows or 35 damage for group bows, does not change the ratio order all that much : Grace/Skybarrage : 264 damage, 25 delay, 10.5600 ratio Imperial Messenger : 231 damage 23 delay, 10.0434 ratio Poignant Pestulator : 247 damage 25 delay, 9.8800 ratio of Fear : 240 damage 25 delay, 9.6000 ratio Gilded Prodigal Harrier : 240 damage 25 delay, 9.6000 ratio Proculias : 213 damage 23 delay, 9.2609 ratio Darkened Wind Saber 186 damage 22 delay, 8.4545 ratio (Damage amounts added to bow damage based upon 23 damage arrow, 12 damage aug, and for raid bows, an additional 11 damage aug.) So, @Espionovsky, I really cannot find anything in your post to back up or explain your denial of my statement on how “weapon damage” on archery attacks is determined. But, in case it was not obvious, the “weapon damage” on arrow nukes such as Focused or Forecasted, does not add aug or arrow damage, it is set by the spell. This is for bow attacks only.
So the forums eat the name of of Fear, the bow from TBM? I think we need to have a discussion about the of Fear then. It's a shame when the developers can name the of Fear that and we can't even discuss the of Fear on the official forums because it word filters it.
i can do this very easy fro you, remove your augs, change the arrows to the 50dmg ones, you would still be a few points higher in damage overall on paper, but your overall DPS will go down because the 50dmg arrow does not add the same dmg as 23dmg in augs and 23 dmg arrow.
If you think that arrow damage is not the same amount as bow or aug damage, then tell us, how much damage is it really? Half a point? .875 of a point? What is it? I showed earlier in this thread that changing 20 points from augs to arrow changes NOTHING in terms of how hard you hit. If you have actual hit damages to show something different, <b>then do so</b>. Don’t just say “that’s wrong” without anything at all to back it up. Put up the actual numbers you get from doing your own test, that we can then replicate and see for ourselves.
I do not have a way to post what I have without spending hours searching through my log, but i have tested this on numerous occasions that bow dmg + aug dmg gets effected prior to arrow dmg being added on. I do not have any 50dmg arrows at the moment to do this for you, so if you want to see the effect, go do that part and try it out, and then comeback to me when you realize how it effects you.
It doesn't take a 50 dmg arrow to test, Espionovsky. If you're correct, then it'll be plain with 20 dmg arrows. Spend the hours searching, or just redo the tests - they don't take long. Others already have. No one else has seen the effect, go do all the parts and try it out, and then comeback[sic] to us when you realize how it effects you.
Then at a bare minimum explain how I got the EXACT SAME MAX HITS by swapping 20 damage from augs to arrow, with NOTHING changing otherwise, for gear or buffs. It does not matter whether the damage is from the aug, the bow, or the arrow - one point is one point. The only thing that even comes close (and then only when looking at a total fight, not each individual, discrete hit ) to what you describe is Elemental damage. I’m not going to describe how that works here, as it is not germane to the discussion of archery anymore (we’ve all long since graduated past the 11+4 wood elf / karana arrows and bows don’t have it on them anymore, if they ever did). The question I’m asking you is simple. If you take X damage from your bow+aug and transfer it to your arrow, how much does that change your hits? The answer I came up with after a brief test is zero, it doesn’t. You are telling us otherwise. We all want to know the data that supports your position. That’s all.
