Lets be real, enchanters ruin early TLP play

fotm is fine. Gamebreakingly imbalanced is not. If they patch in paladins 1 shotting every mob with autoatk would you be fine with it, just because it may only last a year or two? Lets not bury our heads in the sand just because we love a certain class. It's downright silly how strong chanter is for the first few expansions.

They aren't going to balance classes for classic content. Small changes here and there but not class balancing. Good luck with that.

Enchanters are relegated to being buff and debuff boxes inside of raids - there is a reason many enchanters quit due to hating their raiding life. They are not irreplaceable, and you trying to spin that them filling different roles in groups vs in raids as them "being two classes" is just a false spin on the entire discussion. Potions and other classes can make up for no enchanter, albeit not as efficiently.

Agnarr is not "MOST TLP's"

Every previous TLP has made it to Gates. Phinny has made it to gates, and Ragefire and Lockjaw will shortly. Agnarr is the only one in the history of the TLP's that will not.

As for "fewer still will stick around" on Phinny, we had 20 guilds clear PoTime in era, 19 guilds cleared Tacvi in era. In other words, virtually everyone stuck around.

The fact that you need to bring DBG cash into this only hurts your argument. Chanter mez is irreplaceable on raids, clearing trash with charm is irreplaceable, as is tossing clarity on the entire raid. And this is the avenue they are the worst at....

You are right to direct the conversation away from grouping but it is still noted.

This is a conversation about the first few expansions, please read the title.

In classic, sure, In Kunark. Hmmmm, yeah, I guess. In Velious and beyond. Nope. Outside of a handful of zones there really isn’t even anything to charm in raid zones. PoT, the top raid zone Agnarr is ever going to see, your chanters are going to be sitting on their hands buffing every now and then. Oh, and that one tash per mob. Fun times, obviously overpowered.

In which you made repeated, false statements about things that happen after the first few expansions. You were the one that brought it up.

In that specific quote I didn't even mention DBC, you can actually CRAFT the potions in game. The DBC ones are great, because you can get the buff for 4 hours instead of 20 minutes.

Clearing trash with charm isn't irreplaceable, you do it with your DPS. I also don't remember much being cleared via charm except Kael after Kunark. /shrug

Chanter mez isn't irreplaceable, because trash can be picked up by tanks, or mezed even by bards.

I'm not directing the conversation away from grouping, but grouping isn't the end game content in Everquest. Raiding, where enchanters are not remotely over-powered, is the end game and also a part of the equation you ignored.

You've gotten me into the weeds with this discussion, but all you're doing is complaining - not looking at anything objectively or offering solutions. What is your proposed solution? Nerfing enchanters so no one plays them anymore?

Judging by your post, it's evident that you've probably never played an Enchanter to level cap on live or on any TLP... Perhaps you should try playing all aspect of a Chanter (solo, group, and raid) to make a better judgement of the class.

Anyway, let me satisfy your statement.

Beastlords
- Damage
- Can Tank
- Mana Regen (Domination Line + Paragon)
- Slow
- Haste
- Buffs
- Heals

Bards
- Damage
- HP/MP Regen
- CC
- Pacify
- Bard Style FD
- haste (that pushes buffed haste over the cap)
- AE Slow
- AE Snare

Shadow Knights
- Tank
- Damage
- Self Healing, a geared SK can push damage right off the table.
- Single Pulls via FD
- Corpse Summoning

* A geared Shadow Knight is far stronger than an Enchanter.

Necromancers
- Damage
- Mana Regen via Twitching
- CC versus Undead
- Pacify Versus Undead
- Feign Death
- Snare
- Rez
- Corpse Summoning

I think you get the picture... The Enchanter while powerful, is not the be all end all as you so ignorantly described. As others have pointed out, as expansions unlock on TLPs they round out even more.

Rangers in PoP? Technically its Auto-Fire.

Maybe if they could headshot raid mobs.

Your chanters mez on raids? We just off tank and kill everything. Charm loses it’s effectiveness swiftly as the expansion roll out, even in Kunark it’s not what it was. So if you are talking about classic and to a lesser extent Kunark I suppose, no one really care about those expansions as they are already so horribly unbalanced and broken from a class perspective that the only solution is just to get out of them as fast as possible. Pretty darn soon a raid chanter boils down to a buff bot, you want to nerf buff bots? That’s cold man.

Pretty sure I saw rangers head shotting in VT. I mean, we were in PoP at the time, but slimes are apparently humanoid. Who woulda figured.

How does an enchanter devalidate a cleric? You state EVERY other class, while that is clearly not the case. Top DPS? Sure.. If the zone has charmable mobs, not to mention the MOTM changes that make them the top target should a tank go down. Top Buffer? Hmm.. I'd argue that clerics are top buffers here. Enchanter has one spell that effects 1/2 the classes. They have another that effects the remaining half (with some interlapping between the two). Clerics buff EVERYONE and it benefits EVERYONE.

You're totally right. I forgot that an enchanter can just take hits for days on end with no disciplines, no heals, and no additional DPS. Oh the pet is DPS you say? Not when it breaks and you simply cannot get it recharmed because you're getting smashed by the raid mob (oops! tank died) or the named simply because it's too high level.

We get it. You hate enchanters because they make YOU feel useless. You want to know how to not feel useless? #gitgud.

They offer versatility and have the options to do stuff on their own, but that does not make them "God Mode." They have risks with their gameplay when they opt to use the charmed pet, and it is not the best in every situation. Are you going to sit and complain when Shadowknights can go out and solo past content raid mobs because "OMGERD they're all classes in one!"?

You really need to lay off the crack. I've heard it kills brain cells, and you obviously have few to spare.

I was more commenting that every class has a flavor of the month, and Enchanters is the early expansions. Then then said it would be OP to 1-shot mobs, to which i pointed out that is a mechanic in the game.
Ironically its int he game for 2 classes, Rangers and Rogues. Only Rogues is DODH.

Edit:
Necros, Druids, and Bards can also charm.
Heck Even Shaman can charm, just their charm is stuck at a lower level, like 35?.

It's not just Enchanters you are nerfing.

Zerkers, too.

OK, New Member,

A) Why do you care?
B) If you think it's so easy, try it and report back.

BTW, you should be aware that calling for a class nerf is against forum rules.

TIL Berserkers can as well!