Time to cancel sub

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by ragefire.etronne, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Razgadz Lorekeeper


    If you have no friends - yeah thats a valid solution ...
    Makta likes this.
  2. Vaako_SK Lorekeeper

    Either move/merge the entire server or nothing.

    If just one guild decides to move, where would they recruit from? what about their friends in other guilds/ not guilded ?

    Even if the raiding guilds moved over, where would they recruit from other than each other? I doubt the random casual folks will move as it would require all their friends to do so aswell, and since they are the least affected it's unlikely they would to begin with.

    The community will be killed resulting in merger of the guilds thats left (if any) and masses would quit.
    The idea of individual free move is sold as "for those who cant wait for a fix" but no offer of a free move back when/if the server is fixed, so the whole idea is idiotic.

    A decent company would announce whats going on, what plan is set in motion, what timeframe are we looking at, and as a bandaid to loyal customers - some for over a decade, offer a period of free membership!
    tanith, Makta and daBlubb like this.
  3. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Well, at least we are promised that a fix will come eventually. And lets be honest: In the long term, a fixed AB is a better solution than moving to another server...:)

    Just wish we had a timeframe...:(
    Vaako_SK likes this.
  4. Perplexed Augur

    Very well said, when I first saw the "free transfer" post I was optimistic, then I read it :(
    To me, it seemed like DBG was trying to repopulate a dead server rather than find a solution for the AB problems.
    Makta likes this.
  5. Makta Elder

    How about you instead?

    The entire Euro server should NOT have to take a one way transfer on an individual, toon by toon basis as a FIX to a DBG's lack of providing the service they promised and we pay for. You, and the other smart- posters/players from other servers can keep the smarmy comments to yourselves.

    Simply put, DBG either needs to fix our server POST HASTE, or MERGE our server with one that actually WORKS! It is on THEM to provide a TRUE and EQUABLE solution, not some half- band-aid that is neither a compromise OR fix....and it DEFINITELY should NOT be on US just to accept it.

    Oakarm likes this.
  6. Oakarm New Member

    They need to fix the AB server this shite has been going on for months now, there excuses I am tired of, the money they get in subs from AB is more than enough to buy a decent server 100s of times over, who is hosting the AB server in Europe is its DBG or some third party?

    Move to Vox ? why the should we.
    tanith, eliandra and Makta like this.
  7. eliandra Elder

    they are not honest in db ... if they propose to move one by one on vox and not to merge with them , it s simply cause with ab population on vox we will see the same pb ...
    Makta likes this.
  8. LicePaper New Member

    On player support forums the AB lag post has the most views replys on the forums, DBG need to start refunding peeps subscription. DBG money grabbing C**TS.....
    tanith, eliandra and Makta like this.
  9. Theo Journeyman

    Sorry I don't really understand your mentality here. (long post, feel free to skip to last paragraph)

    Currently the status of AB is such that the only people playing there are the hard core raiding guilds and those that box (i.e. play alone and don't group). the rest will probably either quit because they cant play on such an unstable server or move to Vox for a better play experience. those that do stay probably aren't the people you group with anyhow. the group scene on AB is pretty much dead pre-100 which actually makes vox more appealing for those lower level people who log in occasionally

    If everyone moved to Vox you will have no issues grouping with anyone because, guess what, those on AB are now on Vox and Vox's EU population will actually be greater than that of AB.

    Assuming you convince your entire guild to move (for free) to Vox then you will likely have enough people to raid regularly for the next 2-3 months before needing to consider recruiting. but then your not only recruiting from the active player base that was on AB (because if they play more than once a week they likely will move to Vox because the weekends suck right now on AB) your also picking up new players that chose vox (both EU and US).

    Lets not forget that there is still a large number of US players on AB. Those that play at unsociable hours have often chosen EU preferred servers because it fits their work shifts. They are probably considering a move to a US server already - perhaps one with an existing EU guild, but likely havent due to loyalty to their current guild.

    Yes I understand this single move over a merger is an issue for guilds. But right now we have had numerous raids cancelled at our peak time simply because AB is unplayable with constant disconnects. What is better?
    - A guild that cannot raid for the foreseeable future with players logging off early or quitting EQ and cancelling accounts in droves, or
    - A guild that raids regularly with a slightly higher ping and happier players that might need to up its recruitment policy to cover 2+ servers?



    Obviously there are other issues to moving singularly over a merger, Guild tributes to name just one. But based on your post I see no real reason for a guild to not take the free move. just keep a character logged into AB and aggressively recruit there to get new recruits to move to vox.

    I have a feeling the first major guild that does the move will pick up a lot of interest from other guilds currently having to cancel 2 or 3 raids a week (especially on weekends) as players grow tired of the disconnects on AB.

    In my guild some people say they would rather retire their character than more off AB. I don't understand this loyalty to a single server. But myself (and 6 other friends) have moved at least 3-4 times in EQ since 1999. I can understand loyalty to a guild and the friends you make and perhaps because they have friends in other guilds that might cause concern for moving if they group with them.

    This is why I think all the major guilds need to unite and move together, instead of just sitting back on AB and slowly dying off as the disconnects continue to alienate and frustrate its player base.
    High Voltage likes this.
  10. eliandra Elder

    ok theo , i think you dont undrstand that majority of raiders , the officiers and leaders of each raiding guilds on AB , don t want to move ... on long term ab will probably be fixed or merge and on long term returning players will not come on vox (because free transfer will not continu a long time )
    Actually , do you recruit for you guild (you spoke about aggressively recruiting on ab after.... when transfer will not be free ) ?do you raid lead ?
    Like you i moved on 2 or 3 servers (when merge or free offer ) but was some years ago when i was young , without job and family ...actually we all play during week end or after job for majority .
    sod,pikey,rf and ad actually don t want to move for some logic reasons (that you seems to not understand because you see only on court term and you have the possibility to move another time on another server as US player
    after if you think it s better to move on vox , you can join "veritas mortem" on vox and raid in good condition :)
  11. Theo Journeyman

    Well to clarify I am in AD, and no I'm not an officer or raid leader (although I am no stranger to leadership as I was Officer/Cleric Class Leader for Europa/Invictus on TZ/Stormhammer/Druzzil back in the day) I have done my fare share of recruiting during that time also.

    Some further points: ABs fix is currently "No time frame" and in game development terms that can mean months if not years.
    Returning players (if that's the only reason to remain) come in two forms; Those already in guild and those without or in dead guilds.
    For those guilded a simple MOTD will do for advising them where the guild went. The others will simply be picked up by friends/cross server recruitment.

    On the time frame of the free move there has been no announcement that the free window will close. the only time i can see it closing is once AB is fixed and at that point I imagine DBG will offer a reversal of the free move to allow players to move back. I believe this because they want people to continue playing. They are a business first and foremost, and the more paying subscribers they have the better for them. It would be nice to get some confirmation on this from DBG however. its certainly not clear and has been asked by a few people on other threads including myself.

    Like you, I don't know why the 4 main guilds don't want to move, perhaps they have reasons they don't want to share. I'm not gonna discuss guild politics here though, its not my place to and quite frankly just like most of AD, whatever they decide to do I will support that decision, regardless of my own opinions.

    That doesn't mean to say I have no voice on this subject. In fact, there are a lot of very vocal people on AB whose voice remains unheard here on the forums. considering the importance of this topic I think that is a fatal flaw in the way DBG have announced this free move. It is obvious from the past few weekends that DBG are doing something with the server, 8 months of issues has never caused so much disruption than what we have seen over the past few weeks. I hope it does get fixed soon but if it causes the destruction of the raiding scene I'll be moving to Vox in the hopes of rekindling that, because its not going to happen on AB in its current state.

    Lastly I would not join a US raiding guild on another server just to have a tag, instead i would either start my own European guild or join an existing guild with the plan to start a raiding schedule in a GMT time zone. doing so may need some research into modern raid tools though.
  12. Mossaa Augur

    I do not figure out how to quote your message Theo. But you say you do not understand why guilds do not move to Vox and then you say you will move and not join a US guild but join Euro time guild or start your own Euro guild. That is the issue. There is no Euro guild on Vox and not so many that raid on Euro timezone. Same goes for the other US servers. So if you move to Vox or any other US server you will find your self alone when you raid on Euro time and that is the main reason the raid guilds do not move. And also all the work on moving all the alts and house and stuff.

    -Mossaa
    eliandra likes this.
  13. eqzekisdead Augur

    I cancelled but I am still addicted to EQ so I check the forums every once in a while to see if there are any signs of improvement.

    It has been 8 months and there has been nothing. I really wish they would give us some hope for a better future.
  14. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

    And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream.
    It is a dream deeply rooted in the Everquest dream.

    I have a dream that one day this company will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed:
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all servers are created equal."

    I have a dream that one day on the red hills of South Ro,
    the sons of orc slaves and the sons of former orc hunters will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

    I have a dream that one day even the state of Antonius Bayle,
    a state sweltering with the heat of inoperability, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of lag-freeness and swift service.

    I have a dream that my four little characters will one day live on a server where they will not be judged by the tag over their heads but by the content of their adventuring.

    I have a dream today!

    I have a dream that one day, down in Europe, with its vicious hamsters,
    with its customer base having their lips dripping with the words of "boycott" and "class action"
    -- one day right there in Europe little black erudites and blue Teir'dal will be able to join conversations little furry two-thirdlings and high elves as sisters and brothers in lag-free conversations.

    I have a dream today!

    I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the server shall be revealed and all Europeans shall see it together."

    This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to sleep with.
  15. Theo Journeyman


    I'll quote it for you. yes to move alone would result in exactly what you say, but if the active population (the 4 raid guilds and the active players who participate in General chat and the forums) unite and move together, then Vox becomes the new AB and we can continue as we have been before the issues started.

    This is not a decision for 1 person or even 1 guild. its a decision for the active community of AB but there is just not enough discussion happening at the moment, just people throwing pros and cons at each other.

    The main sticking point for most is what a move could cost them, without considering what staying would also cost. Its easy to be stubborn and stay put but I strongly believe what DBG is offering is a lifeline to a much bigger problem. It just needs more negotiation.

    The cost of moving is something that can be negotiated with the devs while sticking on AB solves nothing. So lets start talking about this instead of throwing insults and semi-hollow threats at DBG. I know some of the guild leaders have been in talks with the devs but these close door politics do nothing for the rest of us without a voice at that table.

    We know a merger is not an option although most would prefer that over individual moves. There are daily discussions in general and in guilds about the disconnects happening at UK prime time and people are thinking of moving even though they don't want to do it alone. We need assurances from DBG that guilds are moved intact. And that once fixed AB becomes a more prominent EU server (perhaps going so far as to invite other EU guilds to join AB from other servers) and we have the ability to move back. I'm sure there are other concerns people could raise as well.

    And if they cant offer those assurances then we can make our decisions based on those facts, rather than the rumor mill we have right now. The whole thing is too black and white, this affects many people on many levels and is not something a single post offering free moves can resolve.
  16. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Personally, I just don't see a point of doing a permanent move in order to avoid a temporary problem.

    It bothers me that our raid-progression is hindered by the server issues, and that we have no time frame at all.

    For all we know they could release a hot-fix the very next day that would help with some of the issues and suddenly make AB "good enough", or it could get worse every week until AB is empty.
  17. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Ok, so what do we have?

    First there are the issues we're coping with on AB of course, the reasons for all this.
    Then there is this "offer" (that i call cosmetic and only half-arsed) of a free ONE-way move TO Vox, on a per-character basis.
    And let's not forget their stated intent to keep AB - as "the " Euro server - up and running.
    From that comes their stated "no" on a server-MERGE with any other server - that won't happen.
    Meanwhile, they stated that the issues we're facing ARE fixable and that they WERE working on it, but are unwilling or unable to give an ETA.
    They've stated that "the offer stands" but won't be expanded either iirc.
    Those are the hard facts.

    And then there's some "soft facts" of people showing up less and less frequently, 60day-attendance of formerly reliable raiders dropping towards or having long-ago reached zero.
    Some people aren't even bothering to log on to "save" the DKPs they have accumulated over their memberships.
    If someone forfeits 400hours of raiding my personal guess is that the chances for that person to return anytime soon are.. small at best.
    The people "threatening" to cancel subs and stop raiding are not doing idle-talk either - ther eis only so much "raiding" you can do in EoK T1 gear, even with maxed AAs.

    Each individual move to Vox (each player taking Daybeak's "offer" of the free one-way move) takes away from our community.
    Or, if a majority were to move, every one remaining behind for whatever reason would diminish our community.
    There won't be 100% moving, can't be 100% - only going to mention currently inactive players here.
    Because of that, the "offer" as such is disruptive to the AB community and can't be taken seriously.
    That it's only free that one way TO Vox only compounds the ridiculousness.


    There is but ONE short-term "solution" that i see to the issues we are facing,
    and that is the server-COPY onto some US-based environment.
    It was said that such isn't planned, but contrary to a merge, they at least haven't ruled that out yet either.
    And it would be reversible, so it would in-line with their stated intent of keeping AB around as a live server.

    But they've shown to us that they CAN care for a lag-free environment.
    They "only" need to provide that on a permament basis.
    Why they don't we do not know, nor are we likely to be told.
    And the "not being told" is just as bad if not worse than the issues themselves.
    We as CUSTOMERS have shown great patience in the 8months it took them to even acknowledge the problem.
    At least one month has passed since then.
    There's only a few weeks left until the expected release of the next expansion.
    People are fed up with the issues, gave up on coping with them - "for the time being".
    And in this situation, silence/failure to openly communicate on the ongoing issue does only one thing:
    it adds to the "bad feeling" that the server or situation is beyond fixing in a timely manner and people check in less and less often, which removes them even further from the game and their guild / in-game-friends.
    If this is allowed to go on for too long - and some player have already reached that point - then it's irreversible.
    That's the "fear" people have, from what i gather.
    Theo likes this.
  18. Theo Journeyman

    Bravo Zhaunil_AB. That was a very well written post and I hope DBG pays particular attention to it. Especially the last part.
    Uncertainty, frustration, continued silence and lack of negotiation on the situation will cause the death of the AB population and that is irreversible.

    To DBG: Give us a definitive life line! not this brush off we currently have. Set out your goals and the intended outcome. If you intend to fix AB to maintain a EU based server as you say, explain to us how you intend to maintain its community! We aren't asking for dates, just a detailed flow diagram from start to finish.

    I get that your intent on the move was to allow people to continue playing while you attempt to fix AB. However its left so many questions for such a large portion of the AB population that your intent has been completely lost in translation.