The over-use of charming

You're going on the basis that I said to remove charm. I never said that.

One suggestion makes a level 28 charmed bat do 31-41 dmg a hit instead of 52 and the other cuts down the duration. Both suggestions even included removing the RNG of charming making it more consistent.

I'm well aware of the limitations that the Enchanter class has issues with if it Doesn't charm. And I wouldn't be opposed to a early level (pre-65) buff to their dots sort of like how Druids got. But the suggestions I made still keep the Enchanter competitive in DPS, especially compared to Monks, Rogues, and Rangers.

Let us get this straight, you have no problem with turning Enc into gimped Mag-Necro blend but just cannot tolerate the class having a period of relative high DPS. Hmm competing with monks and rangers huh...

Take Monk's FD, no need for it any longer after all and all that grief training would stop.
Take Rangers Headshot because at a certain point it becomes powerful and they can monopolize some content.
People like yourself have already successfully turned mags into a boring farming class entirely due to people boxing on RF, ah the problem was the boxing not the class yet the grief you people caused the class is still in force.
Geez yall already ruined WoW and busily ruining EQ so where does it stop?
When we all unsub I reckon

The entire premise of the Enchanter class is the ability to dominate another targets mind, whether that be putting it to sleep or using it to kill its friends. Enchanters don't have dots or nukes that do much damage because they are a unique class with a unique playstyle. If people wanted to play a class that does dps by dotting they'd have chosen a Necromancer.

Your first idea is already implemented with a small % reduction in the first couple expansions that is later increased to nearly half the NPC's damage/hp being reduced. Your second idea is just bad, why the hell would a chanter waste time charming a mob, hasting that mob only for the charm to wear off 2 minutes later and have a hell of a long recast time? very stupid. (I wonder why no one ever uses Dictate)

I find it hilarious that it's the same 3-4 people creating the same thread with a vaguely different name every few days because their previous threads whining about it gets locked. If Enchanters are overpowered by all means, roll 4 of them a cleric and a bard and go wreck . Good luck getting anything done when you're trying to manage 4 different charm pets that randomly break on your group. Better off making a mage army and having to press 1 button on each computer to reach success, because whether you like to admit it or not a successful Enchanter is performing many more APM on one toon than you would be doing on a mage army.

They want all class choices to be purely cosmetic. Kinda like they want doctors that spend 11 years in college to earn as much as a fry cook after the progressive taxes settle in, because "muh fairness"

I don't think Enchanters or Charm will be touched, because this is a case of ignorant people trying to make something out of nothing. It's a waste of time, money, and resources to even put the discussion on the table. Not to mention, these threads last about 5 pages before being locked.

I believe that we're more likely to see more zones flagged as no bind.

Realistically I agree with you, yet how many times have some of us old timers seen irrational actions in the nerf dept. Far too many
There is, or was to be more precise, a school of thought that a nerf was public admission of incompetence by a game dev, the cause being not knowing his own game.
How many DBG devs do not play EQ now and hence have no feel for the game?
Fertile ground for nerfs indeed. So jic, we persist.

Yeah, I know. I'm just hoping that foresight on DBG's side plays a part here.

Only charm named mobs with good loot, then make sure other mobs kill it instead of your group. You'll be a winner for sure.

I hear Frenzy makes a good pet.

That's the plan. The more we get casuals to quit because they can't handle meta changes, the better.

Heheh yeah that will work out well.

Its not a matter of gear.

If their Defense skill level is in the toilet, they're going to get rung like a bell and not be avoiding hits they should.

Defense = your Avoidance. Not working it is the biggest mistake most new(and even older) players make.

I don't play enchanters, but I love them because it's a high skill-ceiling class. There's also very clear tradeoffs when you (a chanter) decide to charm a pet. You gain substantial DPS, but you also bear a risk that your pet breaks at an inopportune time and kills you or someone else. This is a HEALTHY game mechanic. It's also cool because it allows for an individual players' skill to show. A good chanter is very recognizable and makes a group significantly better. A good chanter will be able to manage charmed pets more effectively than a crappy one. There are good chanters who can hold golems in the Hole, and there are mediocre chanters who charm elementals because they can't hold golems. It displays skill gaps clearly, which again, is a HEALTHY game mechanic.

EQ is nice because there is skill required (for the most part, and in most classes) and there are subtle ways to differentiate between good players and bad players. The other great thing about EQ is that even as a bad player, you can play the game equally and enjoy the content and do everything... it's not like you can only get to lvl 50 and get good gear if you're a good player, but also, playing with good players is a really rewarding experience and a good player or group of players can have a decisive impact on encounters. AKA, you can killy Naggy with a good group of 30, or a bad group of 70 people. Both groups will get the kill and enjoyment, but the good group will do it based on their skill and ability.

It's like a perfect blend, and as an EQ player, you can play at any type of level you want and have fun. If you're serious and want to play with good players you can... if you don't care and are super casual you can also just play the way you want. What SHOULDN'T happen though, is for the game to turn into this happy go lucky thing where skill differences are removed and every class is 'equalized.' A cleric shouldn't necessarily be able to say: "I can be a tank cleric, or a DPS cleric, or a healer." Cleric role is healer. Chanter has more of a utility role. SK has a utility role (tank, puller, off-tank, dps depending on situation), and so on. Making everything the same, or allowing every class to be everything, or removing elements of the game that allow for a players' skill to show will just make the game a lot less interesting to play.

What camp are you pulling that you even have 3-5 mobs to pull? Right now it is so overcrowded that you are going to be way overleveled for any camp, which means that there aren't going to be any mobs for you to even pull >.<. I don't see you being able to do this until Kunark in some zones, maybe even Velious. If you are doing this on classic, please tell me what zone you are doing this in lol.

Furthermore, I don't see you doing this naked. You aren't going to have enough mana to keep your group buffed with haste, clarity, maintain a charmed pet, pull, and ae stun/mez. You won't even have enough time. When ae haste and ae clarity hit, that saves a lot of time/mana. Furthermore, the mana drain ability helps too. Kunark also brings some extra helpful gear to help control a pet.

So, how are you doing this on classic? I'm a pulling enchanter too. If I did what you did, I would be permanently oom. Hell, I usually hover at around 20% mana and that is with prioritizing haste to only rogues, monks and charmed pet(s) and not pulling 3-5 because I definitely don't have the mana to spend on the 1:36 mez like I'll have in later expansions.

Then again, I know that in later expansions enchanters begin to even keep all mobs slowed while maintaining a constant 3-5 mez'd in camp, group fully buffed, pets fully buffed, a charm, and pulling, so maybe I just suck >.<. I still say that it can't be done without aa because slow takes a long time to cast and you don't have that time to spend when you are chain pulling trains.

Also, when the group keeps a camp locked down and I am bringing mobs in as they pop, I don't keep a charmed pet >.<. I become a glorified puller/buff bot at that point.

If you are in a group with an enchanter and they aren't pulling, you are a noob, your group is filled with noobs, and your enchanter doesn't know how to play their class.

Mal helps with mana, but not with health. Just pbae (1 second timed as they get in range) -> pbae (big) -> tash -> charm. If you don't have spell casting haste items (I don't, oi oi), then pbae -> pbae -> tash -> pbae -> charm. If you have properly put -mr gear on your pet, they shouldn't resist your stuns.

My two cents :3.

Live side lguk during the day, hamlord+frenzy+sage cav sav exe + assassin supp late at night when the scrubs training up the place to to bed, and the hole all come to mind. Why do you need mana over 20% when ur not buffing? Lvl2 mez costs next to no mana.

Also, don't slow. The only mobs that need slow are golems in the hole. In the 40s pair with a bard and stunlocking becomes sustainable due to manasong

Nestharus-

No Classic Group Content should require you to cast your Slow, it should die so fast for it to even be applicable. ( Frenzied / Ghoul Lord ) with a couple being the exception and your tank level.
I don't even have my Slow MEMed, unless in the Hole or Planes.

Mezzing-
Dazzle using 140 mana ( I believe ) or use Mezmorize the level 2 mez for like 25 mana.
You can keep 5 mobs locked down with the level 2 mez and you regen your mana as fast as you cast it.

Charm is like 245 mana - or like 15% of your mana.

In my opinion you should never run out of mana as a Enchanter in classic. ( especially since you have Potions / Distillates in game.

No, just no. the chanter needs to keep their in camp and CC the trains im pulling as a monk.

Enc is perhaps the last class where a player has enough options to find his play style.
If I wanted to pull all the time I would have rolled a monk, oh I know how to pull done it for 18 years off and on from Orc Hill to NTOV and beyond but now it's not on the agenda any longer.

See it is not a question of knowing how at all it is a question of feeding lazy buttmashers, not doing it any longer. Don't like it fine make it known up front you want to be hand fed your xp and we can avoid misunderstandings. Yes I can pull very well but frankly in a group that expects buffs out the ying-yang, a charmed pet for DPS, CC if needed, and someone to cart the mobs to them... well why do I need the group?
The entire mess of you could be replaced with a Druid and then I don't have to listen to your incessant whining and grubby loot grabbing.

Bit extreme? Perhaps but true as each Enc has given up on getting a raid spot in all probability just to play this class. It is now just that much fun. It is MY class MY char not yours, you chose another route live with it.
One can literally burn themselves out meeting the expectations of others beyond reason. I play attentively, I play well, I don't grief people and I am pretty much not interested in kronos. If a group cannot work with that then too bad so sad hasta. Find some sadsack looking for validation to run ragged I do not get mine from a game.

If you want to maximize your xp, enchanter needs to do all of that.

If you don't want to do as much, recruit more enchanters. I usually like two in a group to split up the tasks : ). One can do it, sure, but it's easier on the mana and on the person playing to have two. I think I've had 5 enchanters and 1 druid once at 6 charmed pets, lol.


If you are an enchanter, the only way you aren't pulling in a group is if another enchanter in the group is pulling. Don't like it? Then go box your druid.


Keep in mind that the puller will need to likely CC the first incoming mob (unless ae mez is being used) for speed as those in camp won't know when the mobs are going to arrive ; ).


Also, it's not like doing all of that is hard >.>. I think I did it for 10 hours straight in lguk. At one point I had turned into a zombie and was mindlessly pulling along a route like a machine. I wasn't even paying attention anymore :/. Was sort of like auto-pilot.

If you are charming a pet and also having to keep SLTW up on some melee, you will need a break to med and let someone else pull. If you're using pacify for pulls that's also 100 mana a cast.

I totally agree enchanters make great pullers. But this idea that chanters can keep a pet charmed and hasted, the party fully buffed, and continously chain pull while mezzing adds is just wrong or only applicable to very limited situations/ group comps. The reality is though that most groups will clear more quickly than what is available, so you can pull and med in that downtime.

I wouldn't mind skipping the pet and being a dedicated puller as well if you have a rare example of chain pulling multiple camps.

As a monk you should be sitting your *** in camp DPSing. It's a greater DPS loss to the group to have any melee leaving to pull.