I havent seen this get a thread of its own yet, just seen it referenced in other threads here and there. Since the patch last week when the change was implemented that makes the caster gain the credit for the alliance bonuses there has been a pretty major change to the amount of agro generation. Is this intended or a mistake? I am seeing people pull agro on raids and exp groups that I have literally never ever seen before. It seems to me that this must be an unintended side effect of the changes and that the way the game calculates hate for the alliances should be adjusted. I cannot believe that it was ever intended that we should have to select when to use our alliance spells based on the fear of gaining too much agro.
It's not broken it's just people are now getting credit for the Damage / Agroo for the first time. 1-2 million magic damage is a massive amount of hate. The Monks Curse of Thirteen Fingers as well. The fix is pretty easy. They either need to make fumigation effects not cause any hate or give everyone a toggle AA that reduces hate generation. Silent Casting and Silent Strikes are only up for a short time with long re-use so those don't cut it. They are good for burns but do nothing for your average fight. I've always had trouble with to much agroo generation from procs as well. Magic damage counts as pretty absurd amounts of hate for the damage done. The devs have gone crazy with procs in past few years so the problem is only getting worse. Magic damage seems like it's 5-10x the hate of the same amount of damage in melee. If they are going to keep giving every a billion procs then we need some kinda of AA that reduces hate. Let it be toggle-able so we can choose when we want the hate or not would be great. And before some turd says " Well just FD then", keep in mind you never know when a fumigation is going to happen. All it takes to die sometimes is a boss turning on you for 1 sec. Even if a monk manages to FD fast after they happen we can still die in one round AND we lose Dps every time we FD. So while it's nice that were getting credit for those 2 abilities finally, the amount of hate that comes from them makes us lose dps due to having to FD all the time now. I feel sorry for the classes who can't FD all the time as well. Something needs to be done about it now, that's for sure.
Since these are raid only spells, perhaps people should plan for them. Don't cast an alliance if the tanks aren't ready with the agro.
Curse of Thirteen fingers is not a raid spell, it's a spammed Dps ability. We should not have to plan on when to cast that since it's very much needed to keep our sustained damage up. What's the point of having such a ability on a fast reuse if you can't even use it all the time? It defeats the entire purpose. Same goes for Alliance. I highly doubt that they were intended to be "only cast this once every 5 mins when it's safe to do so" abilities. I could be wrong but I'm pretty positive that was not idea behind them.
Melee damage (aauto attack) does not in and of itself create aggro. Melee creates aggro based on a swing, whether hit or miss, dmg + dB is the value per swing. This includes flurries and extra rounds. Spell damage is just a straight base damage = hate, critical hits are the same hate as non criticals. Resisted spell damage (but not immune) is very near on the same hate. Immunity to spells negates the hate aspect unless there is an override (generally), same with reflects. The reason these spells have so much hate is lack of an override (this has been touched on in another thread fyi), before no one got the credit for the Damage so the hate had no one to be assigned to. Now they do, so the recipient of the damage also gains full hate for the action.
SK alliance + bold attacks + mask agro mod + vot = why cant you hold agro war!!!!!! hrm maybe I should pay some crappy pally to marrs the MT......
Yea I know and I hope it is as simple as that. If all they need to do is change it to hate override then great! Let's get it done >< I'm just saying it was not the intention for these type of abilities to have to only use them when it's safe to do so. They would not have put a 1 min- 30 sec reuse on these abilities if they were intended to only be used when it's safe to do so. That's a joke. It's never safe to do so. Their is a gap between when they are cast and when the damage goes off as well. What if it's safe to do so when you cast it then the tank dies? Then we get facerolled anyway. I'm positive they were not meant to get everyone killed all the time or that's very bad design. Anyway you look at it, their is a problem and it needs to be fixed.
In all seriousness though, I really hope this is a bit of an over sight. Last I looked 36 Guilds have beaten an EoK raid and only 15 have finished the expansion. Tier 3 just became a whole lot more difficult for those Guilds that haven't won EoK yet. The difficulty was absolutely balanced around Alliance spells before Guilds are set up with Blockers. I'd like to point out I absolutely despise Alliance spells. I hate how much winning raids was balanced around them (pre-blockers). I hope this kind of balance around a spell line is not repeated. Maybe this agro is a sign this won't be repeated, I hope so. Suggestion: If the agro is intentional, lessen it for those with out a blocker because this is just plain not fair to up and coming Guilds.
There's no way it's intentional. The dps and attribution of dps I'm sure probably is intentional and the aggro is a side effect they didn't anticipate. Should be pretty easy to fix. Until then, some dps classes will just explode if they fulminate at the wrong time (memblur, mez, charm, tank death, harsh trash mob, ect). We're not having a big problem with it, but an occasional dps or two explode just cause they catch tanks after a blur and buttons are down or something. Before we could save them but now nothing short of an aggro lock before they die will do it.
Prior to the patch it wasn't an issue because essentially the mob casted the fulmination damage on itself. Which is why the dps wasn't reported and thus no aggro. They just didn't think about the aggro from the giant hit and adjust it like some other similar damage tools. Or they did and really don't care thinking its good game management to control your uncotrollable aggro spikes for the bump in dps.
The EoK Alliance Fulmination spells as well as Doom of the Thirteen Fingers will be getting a hate-override in the next full live patch. The base values on these spells is particularly high because they were designed to ignore focus effects and not have a chance to land for critical damage. However, this has resulted in them having far higher aggro generation than similar abilities that would deal the same total damage. As of right now, internally, we're setting the hate-override to be ~7.5% of the damage done. The intent is that the amount of aggro generated when these abilities trigger is noticeable but not as impairing as it currently is on live.
I remember when EQ had a risk vs reward component to it. Sad to see the game has been dumbed down yet again to be on par with WoW and their ilk. Yes please, let it crit like it wasnt intended to, and let us not die from doing 2 million damage, and let me reuse me disc every 90 seconds to further increase my damage reward for no risk involved. If it's that much aggro and you can do it every 90 seconds...maybe it should only be applied to adds that drop dead in 5 seconds or less compared to boss mobs that stick around for 5 minutes. I have no problem with having a hate-override, but how about each time it has to fire in order to counter the aggro generated from doing massive damage in one drop there is a price to pay...in the form of endurance drain or mana drain. You drop 2 million damage in 1 swing, maybe you lose 5 percent of your mana/endurance as a result? You know..a price that has to be paid for the massive gain, or make it like geomantry where its burning off your mana-endurance to generate a shield/aggro reducer effect.
I agree with zigie the bst one should do all of that plus stun the bst for 10 seconds and kill their Pet.
