Is corpse banking allowed?

I was competing for the first medallions in Plane of Storms right after PoP went live and only con'd members from one guild that were red to me at 61 (not just a few, more than two groups). While I'm sure there were others who used this unintended game mechanic to gain an advantage I didn't see them.

You lost baby boy. Crying your eyes out on the forums only makes you look worse. Man up and move on.

..or keep chuggin the kool-aid and acting a fool, like they want you to.

Man if there is one thing in this game I don't care about it's whether some dude I've never heard of in some guild I'm not a member of uses some exploit I'm too lazy to use to get some advantage that doesn't affect me at all.

I can get behind a lot of the complaints on this forum but holy crap.

Normally I'd agree, but the fact is that in this case, it did affect other people. Since they had to compete against level 65's in postorms for progression.

At the end of the day there was nothing stopping anyone from doing the exact same thing. Dima has done this himself multiple times to gain an advantage on past servers.

It seems on this server OGC decided to bank on DBG deleting the corpses, rather than have his guild put effort into corpse banking. AoS chose to give corpse banking a go. There was obviously going to be a loser between the two in this situation, and this time it turned out to be OGC. Although I will admit they got trolled pretty hard by DBG with their initial response.

As mentioned, other guilds corpse banked as well. IVAS in particular seemed to have a number of members drink some kool-aid in SH. I'm honestly surprised more people didn't try it. There wasn't really anything to lose. The worst case scenario was that they would delete your corpses, putting you essentially at the exact same spot you were if you never corpse banked to begin with.

OGC chooses consistently to be ethical, and perform with integrity. Who the **** relies on Daybreak for anything? To fix corpsebanking? No guild relied on Daybreak to implement any type of fix for anything. OGC operates with integrity and chose not to corpsebank based on that simple philosophy. They also completed the fastest Sol Ro through Quarm clear on the server. OGC won close to 75% of PoS named encounters versus AoS, and had their required numbers keyed quicker for BoT than AoS. There is no question OGC is the best pound for pound guild on the server, with the best structure and coordination in clearing content with far more reasonable integrity. Server crashes could have caused any guild to be significantly hindered on winning the expansion, and unfortunately OGC received a 2.5 day lockout on content due to Daybreak's poor customer service. Even with a 2.5 day lockout, they cleared Quarm only 1 day after AoS. Do the math on that.

- OGC killed Quarm 32 hours after AoS. Close race.
- You had the required keys quicker for BoT than AoS yet killed Agnarr over a full day later?
- OGC had literally 0 server firsts in PoP
- Nobody in OGC had stepped foot in an elemental plane before AoS cleared all of Time

Idk, I'm doing the math and your argument doesn't seem to be holding up

-Alright so that's 2.5 - 1.2 or so. Do the math still. 2.5 x 24 = 60 hours. 1.2 x 24 = 28.8 hours. 28.8 - 60 = 31.2 hours positive from AoS's kill time on Quarm not given a 60 hour lockout.
-Once you have a 2.5 day lockout, levels become more important for clearing faster once content is available.
-Server firsts are not required for killing Quarm and winning the expansion.
-You can't get into the elementals when Daybreak fails as a company with multiple server crashes screwing guilds up.

Frankly, AoS used extensive exploiting in Luclin by downing Aten Ha Ra within an hour of zoning into Vex Thal, and they still lost the expansion. Based on empirical data (and not your opinion), it's more likely than not that the same result would have happened in PoP if server crashes and lockouts didn't dictate progression. AoS would have used corpse exploits, and still lost.

This is very special math.

I've been in OGC and I'm currently in AoS.

Honestly, if it wasn't for my close friends having moved to AoS, I may have actually stayed in OGC if it wasn't for how I was personally treated. I enjoyed the people, for the most part enjoyed the leadership.

As far as "ethical" game play, both guilds will push the absolute edge of the ToS. This is absolutely nothing new, since day one going back to EQ's release. Go look back at the big guilds competing for world firsts back then, multiple got their wrist slapped a few times.

Sounds like excuses to me! Also the whole integrity argument is laughable. AoS was dominating the legit DPS races in PoStorms until you started mem blurring every single named. I'm not complaining about mem blurring - I don't care that you used that tactic(no one expected otherwise) - but don't come in here under the guise of integrity.

This is the same faulty "moral victory" type of reasoning some sports fans of low budget teams use to justify not winning over big budget opponents. We all had the same playing field, and one guild emerged victorious on not just one kill, but the entirety of relevant PoP progression. AoS doesn't rely on a red herring end boss kill to trumpet "winning the expansion" for months at a time, either. OGC didn't even compete in open world aside from PoStorms, so you apparently won the race we didn't have, except for the asterisk of having a lockout delay it. I think you should be a politician.

This issue really is two guilds fighting for first place. While that may seem silly to a lot of people it's the main reason most guilds exist, working together to do something you can't do in a single group. I'm obviously bias here in what guild did what and why. I will say this, the guild that didn't finish first has over 100 dedicated raid members and not a single one used the corpse banking exploit. I don't speak for this guild but I will say that they hear about exploits often there is almost always someone who speaks up and says "I'm not going to do that" because they know it's wrong. This guild had members who stayed up all night trying to be the best and yet there are still lines they wont cross.

I don't blame this other guild for using the corpse banking exploit it allowed them achieve their primary goal as a guild. Both guilds knew DBG wouldn't do anything, one chose not to use this exploit anyway. DBG deserves the blame, they did worse than nothing, they couldn't follow their own rules.

Let me know when you want to legit dps race me, a level 65 wizard using 24K manaburn as a level 61 character. This was never a legit dps race, some players used an exploit to gain an unintended advantage. It's interesting that you believe this was "legit" and not a single member from your competition would try it. It wasn't possible to be max level minutes after the expansion launched unless you used an exploit.

Taladir: There is no faulty reasoning when dealing with a 2.5 day lockout timer, and basic math. That data is not debatable. Winning the expansion requires instance kills: Neither guild did it without instancing. Further, open world targets in a progression race require coin flips--no guild is guaranteed to spend their time productively by competing in open world for targets. AoS, OGC, EoE, or no other guild are guaranteed an openworld kill and related well-used time. Therefore, statistically, it's required to rely on instances in winning any expansion on the server in a pure-speed progression competition. Hence, if instancing becomes inconsistent and unreliable between the guilds, then the related outcome will also become inconsistent and unreliable.

Further, either guild (and both guilds) can/did use memblur and mana burn. If you lose a majority (close to 75%) of the DPS races with both of these being available to you, then you are in fact losing the DPS races. Winning with more strategic factors involved is an indication as to one guild being more structured, and better strategically, than the other.

How do people feel this is on the ethical spectrum to say bypassing emperor keying at the start of luclin and fighting Emp at the zonein of SSRA?

I don't know who is piping up with that morally stalwart retort but it sure as hell isn't Dima lol

Eh, I think there's about three or four loosely organized categories, if we want to try to bucket this stuff off:

• Zero-Day Exploits - loopholes in the game which are at best unknown to Daybreak but at least haven't become known to the general public
• Punishable Gameplay - loopholes in the game which Daybreak has officially commented on, and while unable/unwilling to dedicate the resources to close up, threatens punishment for exploiting and actually follows through with said punishment
• Unenforced Rules - all the stuff in the game Daybreak says you aren't allowed to do but hasn't lifted a finger in years to do anything about
• Ignored, Known Exploits - stuff which is pretty obviously sketchy, is discussed openly on the DB forums, reddit, etc. but for whatever reason Daybreak refuses to address

I guess as a spectrum I'd list them like this:
Zero-Day Exploits -- Unenforced Rules -- Ignored, Known Exploits -- Punishable Gameplay
For me, key bypassing falls under Ignored, Known Exploits. Corpse banking, up until RadarX's and Holly's comments, would have also fallen under Ignored, Known Exploits for me, but the other day moved to Unenforced Rules.
I have no idea why I took the time to break this down and write this up. But there you go. And I guess after Fippy, Ragefire, and now Phinny, putting together some buckets to organize these gameplay styles is kind of interesting to me on a personal level. There's some in between stuff too of course, but as broad categories I think I'm pretty happy with this.

All forms of cheating are acceptable on the TLP as long as people keep buying krono and paying subs.

Trying to make sense of this. Which is worst on this list, zero day exploits or punishable gameplay? I'd put those two together myself, not on opposite ends of the spectrum. At least if I'm understanding your descriptions right.