Research Changes in upcoming patch

Against the change to research but if they follow through & remove the way to make the item, hope they remove the items that have already been created before they can be 'scribed/memorized' ...

I don't get what you're all upset about. None of these raid drop spells were research items in era.

You wanted a classic type experience? Here it is.

I will blame anyone who waits until the "secret" is out to petition to get things fixed... Did you know these tomes have been researchable since kunark era, when the required scrolls started dropping? Or did you know how long past out of era spells were researched before anyone complained about it?

As soon as an "out of era" item is made public, people come here complaining to get it fixed, the same people who used and abused the item/skill in secret for months (defiant much?)

And yeah, i have petitioned to get certain "out of era" features off the game on progression servers before, but did it as soon as i found out and not when everyone else started exploiting it.

So research is now worthless. It was awful to grind up. Bad that this is now the worst tradeskill in EQ.

So this fix essentially means research can't do PoP spells until GoD (PoP>LoY>LDoN>GoD)??

On a side note, is being able to research in era spells really a big deal considering after DoN, smiths and tailors can craft relevant group content (cultural) gear that is useful in era?

the 3 expansions rule seems like quite a stretch when out of era combines would make more sense at how fast phinny progresses

- Many Spell Research recipes are now restricted to an expansion at least three expansions after the spell itself is available.

It does say at least. Maybe we're looking at 10 expansions.

They are just nerfing the raid dropped and group dropped spells from being researched until they are 3 expansions behind? That was the way it was in classic. It makes those spells valuable again and worth selling. There are raid dropped spells in the Baz right now for almost nothing, few plat. This does hurt the spell researcher but it will help the raiders feel a little bit of an accomplishment when the only way to get a high level group buff is from a raid mob.

They already sell for 20k...it only benefits the krono privateers to make it worse.

We definitely need more information here, or we should all petition for a refund for learning a worthless tradeskill

I have 1000 saltpeter sitting in my bank. Was going to use it to get my research skill up.

Kind of glad I didn't waste the time now.

Research already is completely worthless after about OoW, this just hastens its demise. At least you all still have that one ikkinz trial to look forward to! Researchers' chance to shine.

I was seriously considering leveling research for PoP. Glad I didn't waste my time. Sorry to all researchers out there <3

I leveled my Research to 243 and I am wearing the Vex Thal +10% Research robe. What a mistake... Time to find a new TS hobby

That would be LoY when they updated spell research with new containers etc.. specifically to allow making of spell from Luclin etc.. You know 2 (more like 1.5) expansion after Luclin. But I guess 3 would be accurate for extremely large values of 2. /sarcasm

I feel like there isn't enough information for me to understand this change (though I can easily be missing something).

-keeping in mind that the research system as redesigned is a gratuitous use of subcombines vs. the old system of drive yourself (sometimes) crazy hunting for the one rare drop needed in the usually 2-piece combine. Also being mindful that research-only stuff on Phinny (at least) has been difficult to get, though I admit not looking for low-level researched spells since baz opened as I have been playing melee.

-a spell should be researchable when it was originally researchable. Keeping in mind again that many spells were not researchable for a long time in EQ, well after 3 expacs. But... there was the shift to vendor available made with the Abyssmal Sea merchants in GoD for some spells. Iirc, revamped PoR era Freeport started getting merchants with formerly unavailable spells and Crescent Reach with the launch of TSS did the same. If I am keeping the timeline straight, sometime after that PoK became a truly useful library of spells and made it unnecessary to use another spell source for most things.

-From a "progression" vs. "classic" standpoint... make all the changes to the spell acquisition system you want -as long as they improve the gameplay. In some cases (not enough info yet to know) this 3 expac to research could be an improvement in availability vs. when a spell should really be available historically. Ideally, put more spell drops in the game. This includes the formerly research only, put them on hard named for the level range (the Muglwump could drop level 28 and below rare spells). In the next expac flag them to drop randomly from appropriate level zones (i.e., hunt in Frontier mountain long enough you will get the 24 pet spell).

Even if a spell is research only for one expac, and huntable (or questable... there's an idea. Spread lots of spells around the old quests. We get a range of low level spells from low (level 1-4) quests. Why not do the same for the harder intended quests? New purpose to doing Temple of Sol Ro for example.

Also, more of the Kunark style quest turn ins where you have to go to a specific destination to trade certain spells for others. Give us a reason to travel if we don't want the "short cut" of research.

I've been working on the PoP progression wiki for allakhazam in my free time. So far from the classes I have updated, almost all 61-65 class spells are researchable. I haven't done enough searching through patch messages in later expansions yet but I think the spell research system was completely revamped in PoR, which is the system we use today. Maybe the developers didn't want that system in place for the progression servers but didn't have the development time in the early expansions to comb through the recipes.

I know there were a few spells/tomes that slipped through the cracks that shouldn't have been allowed in Velious but were later fixed to not be researchable until Luclin. The same issue popped up in Luclin. I think they just saw the big can of worms being opened with research. And I say this as a wizard on phinigel with research being my primary tradeskill. I pumped thousands of plat into leveling it.

I think their intent was to keep these progression servers as close to in era as development time allows them to. These progression servers have come a long way since I first played on The Combine. They have over the years slowly taken a live server and taken bits and pieces of the code and shifted it around to work in era.

It is bad that it took them so long and some people invested money into this tradeskill, but this change was needed. You could never research in era spells past classic. What would be the point of farming muramite runes in OOW if you could research any spell you like at 1/10 of a muramite rune cost? In classic you at least needed different drops for different spells. With new research you can cherry pick spells you want, all spells of the same level cost the same to make. Obviously it was never designed to be able to make in-era spells with new research.

If they don't it just reinforces the "Exploit early and often" mentality. Once again we see people taking advantage of an oversight, instead of reporting it, and then when DBG does finally realize they missed something, their response is predictably a half-booty effort that screws over anyone who DIDN'T take advantage of this exploit.

Of course the response will be that its too hard to remove tomes that shouldn't even exist yet from people because reasons... (and ya I'll probably get banned for this again. I personally find that hilarious that they spend 10,000x more time moderating the forums then the game itself.)

For future progression servers they need to keep the 1.0 research spells in era. That was the only way to get them and the whole point of the original research trade skill.

are they going to remove all the already made+banked tomes and spells? i bought like ten parchments to prepare for POP, so they're worthless now? there was 1 trader with like 400k worth of used parchments up, lol... he was buying them all and listing them for 10k each. why do they even drop?

what a weird change... why brick the tradeskill? nobody likes the turn-in lottery stuff! almost all of the 20-26 MAG pets for example were researchable in classic and quite useful for the leveling experience. they won't be available in POK or AS ever, AFAIK.

will smithy cultural get nerfed since that is already everywhere? DB halp.