Shroud of Stealth 2/2

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Wandid, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Zamiam Augur

    PVP is overrated anyways.. good call
  2. Tvarian Augur

    Quickly looking at the top 50 list, there are 12 Rogues listed, and there are 11 Rangers. That's almost half of the list. Are rangers broken as well? Do they also have some sort of uber advantage?
    Kierrah and Tweak like this.
  3. Root New Member

    Think I will make a rogue.
  4. Wandid Journeyman

    !!!!!!!! FOCUS on the task at hand!!!!!
    The PvP in EQ may or not be "broken," however, I am sure there are plenty of posts disusing the issue of class balance and the current state of PvP on Zek.

    Lets get back to the original focus of this thread........................

  5. Cicelee Augur

    For those of us who do not play on Zek, what is Infamy? Higher the score the meaner or worse attitude you have?
  6. Wandid Journeyman

    Infamy is broke.
    But having or not having it does nothing for a character in-game so nobody really cares.
  7. Tweak Journeyman

    There's a middle ground.

    1. Mage pets should not be allowed to attack shrouded rogues.
    2. You should not be able to assist target on a shrouded rogue.
    3. You should not be able to assist against PC targets if you are outside of the group/raid.
    4. Shadowknight burns need to be toned waaaaaay down.
    5. Ranger snares against players need to be nerfed...badly.
    6. Get rid of insta gate clickies in pvp.
    7. Nerf Shaman See SoS to something with a smaller timer and longer refresh.
    8. Return shroud to how it was.

    As far as the op you've already been answered more than once...traps and aoe's. That's your answer. Accepting it or not, or believing people are hacking...is on you.
  8. Dramez Journeyman

    Most your your requests are fair and thank you for the constructive argument. This really breaks down to 5-6 active PvP rogues vs an entire server trying to do PvE content without a effective counter.
  9. Wandid Journeyman

    Why would you say "believing people are hacking"? I am advocating for finding out how to get rogue targets not accusing anyone of anything.

    I know for a fact that the characters who are getting rogue targets are lying in general chat about how they are doing it. Yesterday it was, "Click the mage eyes 10 times and they work." So, because you associate with them and know they are trolling then I can only assume you are trolling here. I have been targeted multiple times when I am in the zone first, there were not traps, and the player doing the targeting did not cast a spell. Just zone in and while DA; BAMMM, I am on targets target. I am not saying I know what it is but I know what it isn't: spells or traps.

    So, what is the EQ game mechanic that allows that to happen? It is ok to say that you figured it out first and are not going to tell us. That is your prerogative, but trolling like this is not good, not good at all. I mean think about it. You are asking players who understand the game to believe you can zone in, cast a AoE spell while DA and acquire a rogue target when the rogue has taken no damage and recieved no emote that they where in any way effected by a spell. It is only a good troll for noobs. This is the vets lounge. Stop trolling. Be real or stay out of the conversation.
  10. Zekster Journeyman

    No middle ground...take SoS2 out of PvP. Simple.

    Im a cleric! I Wish I could do half the things a rouge could in pvp
    Take this SoS2 crap away from rogue in pvp.
    They have plenty of advantages already.


    I dont even feel bad for a rouge. They can already one round anyone.
    When does a cleric get his turn.
    I dont see any clerics in top 100.

    Any rouge wanting more is just being greedy and has zero concern for server population
    A rouge wont have much to kill if the server population drops to nothing.
  11. Navin Novellus Journeyman


    If you're just coming back to Zek so you can be part of the untargettable Rogue griefing squad, we'd just as soon not have you. So DB should leave SOS2 as is to please a fickle player like you who left because you could not dominate, and would likely do so again once your class isn't OP flavor of the month? Instead helping those of us who have been loyal and steady, paying players? Not a smart move in my book.

    The issues you mention about being attacked by mage pets and snared by rangers are not unique woes of the Rogue class. This happens to all classes just the same and arguing that Rogues need SOS2 as-is because of it is just silly. I could make the same argument to say that SK's need need to have perma-DA and be able to attack even when DA, but that's ridiculous, and everyone would rightfully recognize it as such.

    Talk of middle ground is only attempting to distract from the issue at hand. Yes there may be other issues in PVP, but we cannot afford the time that would be needed to develop and implement large-scale PVP changes. SOS2 needs to be dealt with now, while there is still a server to help. Only after this is fixed can we look at other PVP changes.

    Life on Zek was already difficult, but SOS2 in its current state makes it nearly unplayable. We signed up for the PVP server, we're not complaining about the difficulties that itself brings, if we didn't like it we'd have moved to blue long ago. We're complaining specifically about untargettable Rogues using SOS2 to grief other players endlessly, and are asking the devs to do something to correct it. If this is not dealt with the server will eventually devolve into nothing but 30 rogues sneaking around trying to get the jump on one another and trolling each other in gen chat. An unfitting death knell for the server that downed The Sleeper.
  12. Tweak Journeyman

    Zekster you must have zero idea what its like to guild pvp..especially with a rogue. I think just about anyone with any type of experience with rogues knows how important shroud is vs most classes that actually know how to play their class. You are completely unable or unwilling to look at both sides..at least others are.

    Wandid..once again you are just claimin hacks without ANY type of proof...and all you can do is go around making claims you cant or wont back up. I was personally involved in two separate incidents last night where your rogues as in YOU and another rogue...both made player errors that resulted in broken shrouds then called hacks. I even went on to elaborate HOW you guys had broken your shroud but you are just hung up on the hack calls...good luck with that. Just cause you say its whats happenin doesn't mean its whats happening.
  13. Tweak Journeyman

    Navin once again you make lame claims that every class is affected the same when its just not true.
    Rogues don't do ranged attacks that do any type of meaningful damage..they don't have defensives against ranged attacks either.

    So you go ahead and point to ANY other class that is solely dependent on getting in range to cause damage in pvp....that doesn't have a way to do so suck as DAing or using leaps..I'll wait. No shroud for rogues is completely different when dealing with rangers than it is with classes who can stun, deflect, leap etc.

    Also there are rogues on both sidesk, both are constantly dying with the new shroud change. Both are constantly failing burns. Your try to make rogue seem op beyond the point of being killable and maybe it is......for you..
  14. Wandid Journeyman


    It would be kind of cool to have a "Wrath of God" AoE that randomly struck from the sky whenever anyone attacked a cleric in PvP. It might be even more fun if a random guild-mate of someone who attacked a cleric is the one who got struck.

    Emote: "The Gods have crushed you for attacking their disciple"
    You have been hit for 666,666,666
    You have been slain by a God.

    And of course anyone who was slain by a God would take a 2x exp loss with no rez possible and be subject to rolling no higher than 14 on a /random 100 while suffering a -50% to all exp gained until they washed the feet of earlier mentioned cleric. Although, the washing of the feed could be commuted to a public apology with a substantial plat donation to the political affiliates of the appropriate deity.

    Give clerics a break man! Only kill them if their main is a rogue!
    Tweak likes this.
  15. Tweak Journeyman

    Yes rangers are one of the best if not the best pvp class in game. When you get a snare with no refresh and next to no resist...mixed with ranged attacks, self heals/cures, leaps, tracking, weapon deflection abilities, Dots, fades range as well as up close burns... You get the best of every world.

    Rangers beat almost every class the majority of the time when the owner knows what they are doing. They are are ridiculously over powered.

    Whats funny is the op is a ranger and before the shroud change would regularly call out rogues as they don't stand a chance vs rangers unless they catch them in a small area.
  16. Wandid Journeyman


    Tweak,
    Do you think that no class should be able to detect rogues in SoS2? Really?

    I have stated previously and will state again, I think SoS1 was to easily seen by to many different classes and modalities.

    I don't think they should nurf SoS2 or make it exactly like SoS1, I am just calling for some way for someone to be able to detect a rogue in SoS2. I believe my rouge will get just as many kills if this change is made, however, I also believe my other classes will be more able to exp in open zones with a change along these lines.
    Rangers should be able to track anything in an outdoor zone, so it might make sense to let them see SoS2 in the outdoors and a different class to be able to detect them indoors. Like maybe a Cleric with some form of "detect evil" or a special mage pet that had less offensive and defensive capabilities but could see anyting in "earth, fire, water or air."
    The possibilities for creativity are virtually endless.
    We even kicked around the idea of two classes working together to make it happen. Like a bard with a specialized aura that allowed the current ranger spell to see SoS2. So both classes had to work together to get it done.
    There has to be an answer, because, we both know the current situation is going to kill Zek.
  17. Elite Lorekeeper

    There have been several occasions just as Wandid stated where players have zoned in and acquired the target of an already SoSed rogue. Quite frequently by one enchanter in particular, before his zone DA even wears. Call it what you want Tweak. Impossible as far as I'm concerned at least with what Daybreak provides us.
  18. Navin Novellus Journeyman


    There is a reason so many rogues are on the leaderboards. Even if you were to completely remove SOS, Rogues are still strong and there are many classes that would still be far worse off. Classes like monks also need to get into melee range to do damage and have no meaningful range abilities. Also, Rogues do in fact have a leap with Whisper Step. Then there are a number of classes who you can't technically argue have no range abilities, but the ones they have are not truly meaningful because spell resists are erratic and inconsistent. Look at Wizards, they are all range abilities, yet right now they are hugely underepresented in PVP.

    Rogues are not required and entitled to be top-tier PVP machines, yet you take it as fact and get defensive when your new brokenly OP toy is threatened. Rogues should not be able to sneak right up to and beat all classes in a wide open zone with plenty of room. Rogues did not need the additional boost that SOS2 provides.

    But this is all beside the point. PVP has many issues, but we are not here to discuss all of that. The topic at hand is that SOS2 in its current state gives Rogues the ability to be untargettable to all players with no effective counter-play. An ability which some are using to repeatedly kill and grief groups of players until they have no choice but to leave, grinding the server to even more of a halt than it already was. SOS2 needs to be addressed now as the immediate action, for the good of the entire server. Only then does discussion of further PVP changes make sense.
  19. Tweak Journeyman

    No...I already gave an outline of what I think should happen. I do think some should be able to see ...but the target sharing and pet sending of shrouded people is ridiculous...do you really not think the same.

    Since we are trying to be honest here why not admit that your rangers snare is incredibly op and all but ensures your victory against the average rogue who zones in.

    As for Navin..again...whisper step is only useable while (wait for it) shrouded. Just another reason its important. The range on it is also horrible. Im glad you mentioned monks (even if that's the only attempt and covers literally 1 class) they can invuln...they can chain dispels with numerous items and strip you in seconds.. hardly defencless vs ranged. good attempt though. I also never said they should be top tier, way to put words in there for me to try to seal your point of view. Shroud of stealth is important for a rogue and it is not working as it should...its broken now...and it was broken before. So if you want to talk about fixing shroud....that's exactly what we are doing. /clap.
  20. Tweak Journeyman

    Then prove it...shouldn't be hard. I keep hearing shouts of hacks and videos..so whats the deal. So far all I have seen are rogues making player errors and screaming hacks. How hard is it to prove something like that if its happening...its not. So wheres the proof..