Is it time to end free expansion unlocks at CoTF?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by ZenMaster, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. savrin Augur

    I really don't see EQ as a true f2p game. In EQ, f2p is just there to see if you like it. Then if you do like it, you can get a sub for gold to get the full version of the game. I think it is by design that you have to go gold in order to do everything. $15/month is not much money. If you want to do everything go gold. It's as simple as that.
    Benito likes this.
  2. Raptour_MT Elder

    I see it like this: Until they release an expansion that raises the level to 110, FTP should not get 105 content. COTF is level 100 content. FTP can use up to level 100 content, it is 5 levels below the current max level. If they want to get access to 105 content, use spells that people with subs and 105 characters can use, then they need to purchase that expansion or expansions. "If they want to hob nob with the snobs, then they need to pay the piper!"

    Til then, they have 20 expansions & 16 years of content to explore for free.
    Benito likes this.
  3. Ryanxp Augur

    Yeah

    End F2P, end free xpacs after 2 releases, end free xpacs in any issuance, and end Tier 1 - 5 mercs. If anything, EverSuck should be nothing but a memory, as is Warhammer. Games are not meant to be nostalgic; they're meant to be used as a corporate tool for monies

    Here's my 2 cp in this conv
    Benito likes this.
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I agree. Some people are saying "nostalgic" content is obsolete therefore we need to release new expansions for free. EverQuest will die when it is no longer profitable (all free expansions) and/or overrun by botters (when expansions go free).
  5. Aurastrider Augur

    Where are all these botters you are so afraid of? If I were a new person to the game reading this thread I would think the game is overrun with mega bot armies destroying gameplay. I have been bouncing progression from SOD through TDS and doing missions in TBM over the last couple months and have come across one group that looked suspicious in the sense of afk killing. You are taking an issue and blowing it way up. My guess is you had a bad experience with a bot group and now you are going all "holly roller" against them even when your proposed changes could have a negative impact on the game itself and others who enjoy the game.

    You continue to talk about profits for the company but then you suggest lowering the price to play on the TLP servers? Remind me again how allowing these botters to pay less for a sub on these servers makes the company money? Not to mention how is giving the non botters access to these servers for basically half the money going to make the game more money?
  6. Aurastrider Augur

    This would be far from an easy fix for several reason. The beta sort of system would not work with heroic characters and what is your definition of "basic AAs?". This process would take a developer away from working on new content and fixing bugs with old content.

    How would you decide what AAs that toon would retain? Random, let them pick, first purchased up to cap? The last option would not be possible with auto grant in place and random would be difficult in the sense that lots of AA's require prerequisite AA's to purchase them. A system where a player picks might work but again you are taking a developer away from content to work on something that improves NOTHING.

    How would you handle heroic characters that go FTP? Part of the attraction of a HC is getting all the AA's up to level 85 save a few. So now you have to do additional code to allow these toons to keep those AA's or take away something that they paid money for.

    Changes like this can be made but at the cost of everyones game play in terms of development and better content all for what?
  7. Bigstomp Augur


    So you're saying any friends who return to the game should be banished to the ghetto before they decide if they want to re-sub or not?

    Lots of people still do COTF content. You just have to hang out in deadhills and guaranteed to get a group doing the same 3 screwed up boring missions over and over.
    Probably with a tank who cant' tank, a healer who can't heal, and a dps who runs halfway across the zone and drowns in the water that nobody else even knows exists.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  8. Nennius Curmudgeon

    LOL Describes a group I was in a few months ago. Who said pickup groups couldn't be fun. :(
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  9. VZRetro Lorekeeper

    Lot of good points here and a few not so good ones too... So here is my point of view... Take the other daybreak game DCUO for example. In DC, if you're an all access member you don't pay for any expansions at all, they're free if you're a member. Only the F2P players are required to buy the expacs they want.

    Now look at EQ with that in mind and you'll see the problem. Players who are F2P are being given the game and all of its expacs for free just by waiting for the expacs to become free, while the loyal paying all access members are the ones who have to buy everything if they want to stay current.

    Servers like FV are a good example of the need to stay current. On FV there are only 2 good raiding guilds which I will leave nameless. However, in order to raid in these guilds, you have to maintain at least 50% attendance in one and more or less 100% in the other. And trust me, the one that requires you to raid all the time WILL scold you for missing raids, even if your own parent passes away in RL as a lot of people found out not too long ago. Point is, if you wanna stay current and be in these guilds, you're forced to buy the expacs or you simply don't raid and possibly get kicked out. Leaving you with only one option to upgrade your gear, which is spending even more money on krono's to sell for millions upon millions of plat just to buy 1 piece of current gear, which was never intended in this game.

    I personally think the F2P players should not be given anymore expacs from this point forward. It is not fair to make the members pay for everything while the freebies get everything and don't contribute to the game. What makes them any better than the loyal paying folks? I believe EQ would bring in more money if they operated the same as DCUO when it comes to membership and expacs.
  10. Azra New Member

    Really it boils down to a comparison and a contrast to what the best games on the market are with playerbase and cash flow.
    The top grossing/high playerbases games on the market right now are
    1. wow
    2. ff14
    3. gw2
    4.eso
    5.swtor (crazy but people still dig this a lot I guess)

    The top 2 offer almost zero f2p but rather an intro session. Gw2 however is a game that gives you access to all the content of the game assuming you buy the game. They have a very active cash shop to supplement where cash would be lacking on a sub based game. Same goes for eso, with the option of buying a sub with perks you dont see as a f2p. Swtor is the same as the previous games, buy the expansions, can purchase a sub with things like cash shop freebies, special perks like usage of titles, access to faster lockout timers etc. 3-5 are still supplemented by cash shop+the actual purchased of the game or expansions.

    The real question I have for this game which has roughly 50k people left would be how on earth can you justify paying 14.99 to sub to a game that hardly completes with what a sub model should be offering?

    The f2p games listed above give you free content, each quarter, for literally nothing. Obviously wow brings more players to the table so at this point until it dwindles can charge 14.99 and say screw it. ff takes a bit of a different stance on it and charges 11.99 for a one toon sub, granted one toon can be any class so it is a bit different. They also have a thriving community of millions of players.

    Since I have been back to this game and subbed a couple accounts to roam around with and do my own thing, raid with my guild etc, ive noticed so many issues, so little communication, a very small player base. The question becomes what makes this game worth 15 a month at this point and is there a better way for dbg to make profit to better our gaming experience by trying a different model. Its a harsh reality to the vets probably but sub based games are starting to be a thing of the past. If they don't offer 15 worth of content(and the bar for comparison on that is obviously wow and ff14) with updates each quarter/month/something what is going to keep people playing instead of just feeling milked?

    All that being said canning f2p seems crazy and based on what newer games are doing and the statistics of previously successful games that are beating eq, might be a bad idea.
    Gyurika Godofwar and Aurastrider like this.
  11. Bigstomp Augur


    I think they should continue to be given content that allows them to return and not make me return to CoTF to play with a returning friend. I have no accounts that are not gold so this doesn't help me at all personally except the returning player thing. I already have to step back to old content to play with a returning player who isn't sure he wants to pay or not. Don't make me step back to ancient content.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  12. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    I hate Deadhills so much lol
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  13. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    CoTF is not ancient content. HoT, VoA, RoF, and CoTF are very relevant. You can complete achievements (slayer, collection, Gunthak pirate patch) and quests (Alaris Tear). How many people have completed Brell Shawl 2.0 from UF or iksar illusion from SoD or specter illusion of TBS? PoP content is active with new Lebounde Dolmen tradeskill earring requiring flags. I'd argue that people aren't savoring expansions - it is especially wrong for FTP players to get the impression that they should gloss over 16 years of content just because.

    The issue now is that content is shrinking (lack of resources) and the old "free expansion unlocks" model won't keep proper pace. It is evident now as FTP players can now possibly run 105 characters with less incentive to actually purchase expansions.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  14. Nennius Curmudgeon

    It is a sad thing, I think, that so many folks have done seemingly endless DH HA's and have never tried any of the other HA's in that expansion. They may be more difficult, but instead of killing brain cells with repeating the same thing again and again it is fun to try all of the HA's. I have tried to get folks to try these on Bristlebane and I usually get the response that they just want to do what is easy and ultimately...BORING!
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    If those folks like doing them over and over I don't see a problem. As I tell my guild if you are having fun playing and it isn't at the cost of anyone other person's fun then its all good.
  16. Gyurika Godofwar Augur

    Not saying I agree or disagree but in theory say 25,000 subs at $7.50 to $10 is better than 5,000 subs at $15. Just a random example but hopefully my point got across.
    Drusi likes this.
  17. Aurastrider Augur

    If there were say 25,000 people who want to play this game and only 5k were willing to pay the 15 bucks a month while the other 20k were not willing to spend more than 7.50-10 bucks a month then it would be a valid point but that is not the case with this game. I wish there were 25k new people at least considering this game but the fact is there is little to no advertising and most is from players like myself who tell every gaming person they know to try it out.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  18. Gyurika Godofwar Augur

    I think there are more active players than you think when the recent guild issues had well over 100,000 tickets submitted to get it fixed. It may have went up over 150,000.
  19. mmohno New Member


    I could go out on any given day and find at least 5 bot groups, but guess what? They're in zones nobody cares about. Is a bot group killing in t4 HoT zones really going to ruin your day? The platinum market is already so insanely saturated, with non-botters having 50million+ that the plat they are making doesn't really affect you either. Bot groups don't tend to setup where they are going to affect a real person's gameplay. The ones that do are the ones that actually get banned.

    I think FTP should continue to get the free expansions. I'm in a very very large guild and I know many people that are FTP and have been playing a while, sometimes they buy the expansion, sometimes now. If they are having fun that way, let them. You close the expansions and a lot of those people go away too.
  20. Briken New Member

    First off I love this game. I have been playing off and on since 2001. currently this is a fresh account I started in October. I have over 20 accounts total. I am currently subscribed to this account and one of my main accounts. in regards to F2P I think 20 expansions for free is perfectly fine and enough to not have put a dime into the game. however if a fresh account decides to subscribe I would think that it would be nice to get continuous dated expansions because lets face it $189 USD is freaking expensive for the complete perk package of the new EoK. especially being Canadian seeing as there is no currency change for Canadians and our dollar compared to the USD sucks big time. it is extremely hard to find the clink to afford all the bells and whistles. But this is my view point coming from using a fresh account.

    Secondly. if say that a fresh account unsubscribes after hitting the cap of their unpaid for expansion, two things, either that character goes dormant Or they are again restricted to the 20 expansion. or both. but if we did unsubscribe let us go to at least silver Mercs. those App 2 Mercs are a tough bite to swallow even when other games offer companions for free and not dish out the plat or currency every 15 min. I am mostly talking about SWTOR I have also been subscribed there since its launch. and their companions system is far, far superior to this games. but that's just my opinion on that. Lol!