How long will necros be twitching?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hinastorm86, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Hinastorm86 Augur

    How long will twitching be a thing expected of us? while I know its useful to twitch our oom clerics at 40% mob health, so we dont wipe, I dont particularly enjoy it, and if its a thing that will continue through at least PoP or GoD, I may want to consider my options before it gets too late.

    Also, are pets always dying to AE going forward, like they are now on alot of fights? I know we get pet mend aa or w/e, but its a long cooldown, not really a solution.

    I have no real knowledge of the EQ raid scene past velious, so i'm unaware how things will shake out, any input is appreciated.
  2. Leseul Journeyman

    short answer - throughout all of Velious and Luclin
  3. Zanador Elder

    Come Luclin, we get this little gem:

    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=2549

    Mind Wrack is basically a group twitch, AS WELL AS being a mana drain for mobs. The conversion ratio for us is amazing, because while the spell costs 600 mana, it restores 300 mana to us as well as everyone in the group.

    So, if your raid leader sets up groups properly, and you use Mind Wrack on cooldown, you can greatly boost the mana of everyone in your group without being nothing more than a twitch bot. If you have for example 2 necromancers in the group, and they stagger mind wrack, you can restore 600 mana to everyone in the group per minute, WHILE making the necros mana neutral (each one restores 300 from their own wrack, and gains 300 from the other necro in the group, evening it out).

    This will help alleviate the need for constant twitching, because the use of this makes mana restoring proactive, rather than reactive when your healer calls OOM with the mob at 40%, using your example.

    Plus, we get Funeral Pyre. Yesssssss
  4. Tinytinker Augur

    I'll pull a quote from another thread:
    You'd be better off using your mana to dot up the mob and get it dead, rather than prolonging a fight. . The faster the mob dies, the less mana your healers will need to spend on heals. Twitching prolongs fights.

    Unfortunately, some raid leaders are hooked on twitching and will use it every chance they get. I was in a guild where the necros were twitching all the way into SOF. It's easier for bad raid leaders to have the necros twitch than to address healers nuking, spamming inefficient heals, or being stupid and getting themselves killed.

    Umm, what fights is your raid leader having you twitch on?
  5. DariyaVika Augur


    Different game, but it reminds me of WoW when Burning Crusade came out and priest/shaman/druid dps was a viable thing, unlike in vanilla.
    Raid Leader: "Priests heal, not dps."
    Shadow priests parses top 3 dps while also giving his group mana.
    Raid Leader: "Guess we can let a priest dps"
  6. PhinTank Journeyman


    The real truth is, that if a mob is trivial, yes necros dot. If a mob is not trivial, you are better off saving mana for twitch. You can't lose certain fights if clerics never run out of mana. The second that clerics run out of mana, you are dead. Therefore, if necros are constantly feeding the clerics in a CH chain, you should never lose that fight. On the other hand, if necros are dotting, you are "attempting" to speed up a fight. You speed it up... but sometimes it doesnt result in a win, it results in a wipe.

    Necros extending fights by twitching clerics = more DPS is going on because the raid isnt dying to the mob, when the tank dies. Your necro isn't going to outDPS the other 30 DPS classes in the raid. The extra mana will allow those DPS to keep doing their thing. Yes, the fight is longer, but it is better than being greedy and telling necros to dot when clerics are at 40% mana and mobs at 60%. The entire fight depends on the clerics keeping the tank up.
  7. Leseul Journeyman

    Fights like Nev and Vulak require necros twitching to have enough cleric mana to actually kill the boss, Vex Thal will have may similar duration fights (the HP numbers are up on the test realm, and most of the VT bosses have >1.5million HPs)
  8. Hinastorm86 Augur

    I was aware of mind wrack, but i've heard that a mob needs to have mana to cast mind wrack on it, is that correct? and if so, how many raid bosses have mana.
  9. Lifetap Augur

    Lazy twitch:

    /pause 100,/cast 6
    /pause 100,/cast 6
    /pause 100,/cast 6
    /pause 100,/cast 6
    /cast 6

    (slot 6 being where my twitch is)


    Mana robe spam:

    /pause 33,/useitem 29
    /pause 33,/useitem 29
    /pause 33,/useitem 29
    /pause 33,/useitem 29
    /useitem 29

    This is for the mana robe, slot 29 is the bottom left most open inventory slot.
  10. Aenoan Augur

    um, just for the record even with full debuffs most necro dots are highly resisted which is why the whole twitch phenomenon existed in the first place. Back in the day when they buffed how DoTs stacked, it was mostly for the odd chance that if one particular druid, shaman or necro actually landed DoT then everyone else could throw a DoT of the same line up or the same dots and debuffs without over writing each other. Or at least I think that's how it worked.
  11. Flandersian Augur


    That's why your chanter brings a caster pet along with him to the boss. Keep it mezzed and drink it's mana milkshake.
  12. EQForumAcct Augur

    apples and oranges.

    shadow spec priests in wow were dps, with minimal heals.

    compare a holy or disc priest and your comparison goes out the window.
  13. EQcleric Elder

    Im not sure what you're talking about. But unless a mob is completely magic immune, or fire immune, necros can stack enough dots to be competitive dps with any class but monks. Because monks are broken.

    As far as for twitching, youll twitch when you don't have a fight on farm, and regardless of what anyone else says, twitching is an amazing utility. OGC has about 10 raiding necros. All of who will twitch oif needed and will compete for top dps as well.
    Tinytinker likes this.
  14. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    I raided as a necro through SoD in a large family guild that was part of an alliance of non raid guilds. As attendance was haphazard by most and class balance was random I was at times asked to... same doing orbs.. I used to despise it as a waste of my reason..dps.. then I got over it.. Push buttons in whichever manner raidleader says / actually wins the fight. Grab leader and officers after raid and parse test out of raids


    Edited to add:

    The lack of dedicated clerics was why I changed mains as a raider.

    Now I are one.
  15. Bewts Augur


    You must not be raiding top tier targets. I'd suspect few guilds if any can run a cleric chain on Nev or Vulak where not a single cleric on those chains needs a pump.

    Of course, if you were exploting LoS on rooted dragons, who needs to heal anyways? Or, if you bring 30 clerics and 140 people then surely mana is not an issue.

    I do think we're getting pretty close on some fights where necros will be cleared of full-time twitch duty, but we're also running 8 or 9 clerics in a chain. I expect it won't be long before we're at 8 clerics consistently on AoW. But, that is subject to the RNG on FT gear and clerics getting the items; I think we're hitting critical mass on DPS in a full raid these days.

    I shudder to think what will happen in Luclin without more necros around.
  16. DariyaVika Augur


    I was comparing the preconception of what a raid role was in unimaginative raid leaders.

    Current raid leader: Necros are twitchers forever.
    Future raid leader: Necros should be doing dps, why aren't clerics managing their mana better?
  17. Hinastorm86 Augur

    Thanks for all the info guys, decided to stay necro for the forseeable future.
  18. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    @

    /cheer woot


    and @

    LOL

    #nailonthehead

    while you're at it, Rangers have heals right? That'll save the clerics some mana....
  19. DariyaVika Augur


    Or mages should spend all their mana managing a collection of mod rods. (Actually, that did totally make sense on mobs with high resistance to mage nukes)

    Not sure about the current raid environment, as I haven't quite achieved that level yet, but I've been watching clerics in groups and I can already tell which ones are going to be problems on raids and which ones are going to be very useful. Some people play clerics purely because they like getting groups and can't handle the responsibility of being a tank/puller/cc, not because they're a good player. Even in the CH chain, there are steps you can take to conserve mana. /duck when your CH is about to land with the tank at full health, for example. When I raided with a family style guild, the same culprits every raid were running out of mana before the other clerics, and it wasn't a gear deficit causing it. :)

    IIRC, on certain mobs that deal beatdown levels of damage before they're slowed/debuffed, rangers would throw out heals on the main tank at the beginning (first 15 seconds or so) because they weren't doing anything else before tank aggro was well established and the call for dps came. Once the debuffs were in and the CH chain was rolling along, the rangers of course would stop casting heals and conserve their mana for the dps call. But that was the only situation where a ranger should be doing anything but dps.
  20. Tinytinker Augur

    *Constantly* twitching sounds to me like you are advocating necros should always be twitching, from the start to the fight to the end of the fight? As others have said, in this thread, their necros are able to handle dotting and twitching *when needed* at the same time.

    You are being counter productive and short sighted if you are having your necros do nothing but twitch the entire fight or telling them don't dot, conserve your mana for twitching.
  21. Tinytinker Augur

    My main point of contention is, people seem to be saying necros should save mana for twitch and constantly be feeding the healers.



    What's so bad about having necros do both dps and twitch when needed throughout a fight?

    There are guilds out there who have their necros doing both and telling necs don't dot, save mana for twitch is kind of pointless when necs have a handy little spell called lich that gives them great mana regen. A necro with lich should be able to dot and still have mana for the clerics.