Test Update 5/11/16 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by JChan, May 10, 2016.

  1. sojero One hit wonder


    Yeah, none of us have ever complained about GB on our raids, you can tell when they do it, but it is so small and so infrequent that we would rather have the dps.
  2. Triconix Augur

    I was being facetious.

    However, there is a growing problem of push being a lot worse over the last few weeks. Not sure what's causing it, unless people suddenly are using Symbol of the Planemasters again.
  3. sojero One hit wonder


    I have noticed this as well when tanking. I have had to start using unbridled strike again, when I really didn't have to before.
  4. Schadenfreude Augur

    Bleh.

    My bad for expecting Lucy to get a basic value like DoT damage correct. Glistenwing Blood is still probably slightly better due to the initial nuke but the DoT aspects of both spells seem very underpowered for the huge mana cost.
  5. Triconix Augur

    The current version of Blisterbeetle is 1.49 mana per 1 base damage. The test version is around 13k pet tick at a cost of 10.5k mana? That's about .8 mana per 1 base damage. Your ratio got much better. Now what were you saying about it costing too much mana?

    It's all about perspective.
  6. Eanelder Augur


    Why are these the only augs getting this feature? Can we expect to see this conversion feature applied to any augmentation with a Lore group ?
    Yinla and Gyurika Godofwar like this.
  7. Schadenfreude Augur

    Rangers (and Beastlords for that matter) do not get Destructive Cascade so we already underperform on damage over time. The Beastlord spell(s) get an initial nuke which from my quick and dirty tests is good for a minimum of 50k so that makes their spells slightly more attractive due to the frontloaded damage as opposed to longer duration. They also have three ways to return mana to themselves while Rangers have none so the mana cost hurts us more in comparison.

    The other class so far changed gets decent damage per tick - I don't have Destructive Cascade maxed but it's clearly a huge passive boost - and doesn't have to worry about mana but has other issues introduced in the changes so as you say it's all about perspective.

    The only way I'll even be able to consider using this DoT is if I have a decent Bard in group - my mana usage is already unsustainable over longer events without one.
  8. Darkark Augur

    I expect because they're achievement awards, so once you've got it there is no going back. Loot rewards (like the PoWar augs) are farmable, and getting the one you want is just a matter of farming until what you want drops, like any other piece of loot.
    Sancus likes this.
  9. Triconix Augur

    You're not getting the point. You are getting more damage in return for your base, even without DC AAs. So you can put out more damage in less time. The increased mana cost is less than you would use if you steadily used this DoT and the other DoTs in the same spell line - in groups or raids - if you were to keep it running consistently through the fight.

    Essentially, you can cast this once and do the same amount of damage as the old version if the old version was on a mob for 10+ minutes. This is giving you more burst damage and roughly equal sustained damage by just casting it one time for a period of roughly 10 minutes or so.

    Let's just use numbers (base spell):

    Current Version: 1499 mana cost // 1029 damage per tick
    This equals 10290 damage per minute and 102900 damage for a 10 minute period.
    The mana cost is 1499 per minute and 14990 mana per ten minutes. This equals out to roughly 6.8 damage per 1 mana for the entirety of the spell.

    Test Version: I'm unsure of the values, but let's say is roughly 10,000 mana cost // 13,000 damage per tick.
    This equals 130,000 damage per minute and 1,300,000 damage per 10 minutes.
    The mana costs 10,000 per minute and 100,000 every time minutes. This equals out to roughly 13 damage per 1 point of mana.

    Essentially, you're doubling up the damage per mana cost if you were to only cast this spell - not any other lower level spell in the same line. If you were using other spells in this line, the damage:cost ratio would be even better in favor of the new version. Plus, you're able to put out more damage in a much shorter time period. In just one minute, you do 130,000 damage (without any modifications whatsoever) compared to 10,290 damage. In a one minute span, you're dealing out over 12x more damage for a cost that's only 7x more mana.

    Forget about other classes and just look at your own. I think it's a heck of a good deal having a 12:7 ratio. You could cast this spell just one time and do the damage you were doing if you casted the old version 11-12 times during a fight, while saving 4k mana.
  10. Schadenfreude Augur

    Leaving aside burning the GCD I cannot see very many raid circumstances where this DoT justifies the mana cost of Summer's Cyclone x 4. On adds it most likely won't run full duration.

    If we had 100 debuff slots then perhaps it would be worth casting while moving for example but we have nowhere near enough. That said nothing really has changed in the grand scheme of things, Rangers went from the having the worst DoT line that was a waste of time in most situations to remaining the worst DoT class post revamp so nothing has been lost I guess.

    The lower versions do not stack so even if that was somehow an option it wouldn't work.
    Eruesso likes this.
  11. Kunon Augur


    DoT changes aren't intended to make DoTs great for everyone. The changes are meant to change the mechanics of DoTs overall, with Necros being the catalyst and the focus for the change. Necros are currently using 4 DoTs in some cases from the same line on raids. you also mentioned debuff cap limits, that has been and is a growing problem currently. As you have said, for Rangers and other classes getting this change DoTs still won't be the smart option. DoTs are/possible supplement to other class' DPS and other classes are being used to test the changes before they get pushed out for Necros.

    Allas, DoTs are the primary DPS deliver system for Necros, hence why they have the DoT AAs the other classes do not have and will not get. As for why Necros are going to be last. Not only do they have to upgrade the DoT lines as they are for other classes, but they also have to merge some of the DoT lines since we have 17 not including Swift DoTs. They have to get the damage portion right due to the AAs Necros have and they also have to get the mana portion right due to mana concerns. They also have to figure out what they are going to do with Swift DoTs. Then there is figuring out how all these changes are going to impact the group game for Necros and Necros in group gear and what other changes they will have to make. The big one being mana concerns, since your concern about mana cost/DoTs duration on adds (group game) would apply 10x to Necros in that situation.
    sojero likes this.
  12. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    You're not wrong but this is still a major waste of Dev resources. Necros quit in droves after the latest nerf spending any time on Dots is completely pointless.

    These changes were done completely backwards. Why didn't you start with Necros? None of us have any idea when a Necro actually shows up for a raid if we can cast these newly changed Dots - are there enough debuff slots? We haven't the slightest idea!
  13. Slipdiggity New Member

    I want to deal with the poor programming which made a lot of valuable items in the shared bank lost, items that were hard earned and you will not do anything to replace those items. Why won't you.
  14. strongbus Augur

    there are a total of 100 buff slots on mobs. this has been stated a few times by dervs. But atm the way necro do dps. using up to 20 dots for one necro all it takes is 4 or 5 necros and we eat the buff slots. If they tune it down so all we have is 12 dots then that is only 60 dots for 5 necros and that leaves 40 slots for other classes dots/debuffs. And most guilds run only 2 or 3 necros so that is only 24-36 the necros would be taking up.
  15. mackal Augur

    97 AFAIK. The UI only supports showing 85 though.
  16. Angahran Augur

    Would be nice to get this feature on the Prayer Shawl aug.
  17. Xikteny Augur

    Even though you already can exchange it, I'd love to see a convert button added just for convenience. Some people may wish to change types situationally.
  18. Fnyanea Augur

    If chanter dots are still not stacking, I would prefer the old versions.
    Xanaron_povar likes this.
  19. Eruesso Lorekeeper

  20. ~Mills~ Augur


    I think a lot of you are really not understanding the changes. They are upgrading all or most previous versions of the dot lines as well. I have no idea on the exact details for rangers but they had to go back a few versions of dot lines and upgrade them as well. So rather than using the highest level version just go back and use the older version that fits your need. So if you never used dots before you can keep only the highest level version loaded if you want and use it with GoM procs exclusively for pure bonus dps with a massive increase in power with no mana cost to you. If you were the type that always used the dot you can go back and use say the level 80 version (which will now be at the power of its prior X versions depending on how much they boosted you) which would roughly put you at the exact same damage output and mana cost before any changes.

    TL;DR Anyone wanting to spam the dot exactly the way it was prior due to mana concerns can just go back and now use a lower level version of the dot that roughly equals the old damage to mana costs.


    The real concerns with this as people mention is if suddenly there are 30 other classes wanting to use 2-3 dots each now then even with necros only using 10-12 dots you very easily start hitting the debuff cap again. AND the fact that any class that views dots as supplemental to other forms of dps seem to be getting massive increases in base power that they can exclusively use with GoM procs. Verse a necro probably not being able to handle the mana expenditure of using the highest versions as their ONLY form of dps and thus having to resort to only using older versions of dots in a group setting which never gives them a GoM proc for highest versions of spell and never allows them to really benefit from this boosted up dot power without going out of mana after a few mobs. IE I have to use level 80 versions of dots in a group setting or go out of mana in 6 mobs but these level 80 dots never proc a level 105 GoM allowing me to cast a level 105 dot for free, making it sustainable in a group setting for a necro as well. This leads to a boost in dps for any class with a dot as supplemental to their melee or nukes and a net gain of zero for necros unless they go out of mana at insane rates. Will see in 6 months when they finally get to the dot class.