Deadening Wave is NOT useless.

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Blurred_Memories, May 9, 2016.

  1. Blurred_Memories Augur

    did not want to continue to derail the main topic where i found this comment, so am replying to hit here.

    Lets first clear up a couple of other things:

    You actually have three single target mezzes. look up chaotic bewilderment. If you don't have this spell already you should try and find a copy. it allows you two guaranteed twincasts after successfully landing.

    You also have a second pbae mez, just bafflement. It has the same recast time but doesn't last as long and costs less mana. If any mez was uselss, it might be this one.

    Deadening Wave is far from useless. If you are trying to mez a group of mobs that might move before stare lands, or if they are already in motion, for example if they're being kited by someone else, it's very useful.

    You were right about not being able to mez yourself with the stare line, though you'll understand why I didn't take your word for it after your other comments. I tashed myself, stripped down naked and cast it repeatedly at my location. Though I was able to proc deep sleep on myself several times, I never got mezzed.

    So to recap, consider the strengths and weaknesses of all your spells before telling others they are useless and to stop using them and track down any spells you might be missing. There may be situations out there you've yet to experience where they might come in handy.

    On that note... there's two spells I'd consider useless, and if anyone else knows a situation where they would be appreciated, I'd welcome any input on the aforementioned Bafflement and our Tears line.

    Thanks,
    ~blurred
  2. Reval Augur

    tears is useful in pvp, and would be useful if you really had the need to mana drain a mob. Most that you would really *need* to mana drain seem to have infinite mana somehow though. Bafflement is the fast casting mez you can only use from rest states right? That one I don't know. At least it casts really fast, and you need it for that one underfoot event, but really it doesn't offer much.

    I remember people trying to say that enchanters on pvp servers don't need deadening wave because it mezzes players whereas the stare mez does not if they are in your raid. I guess mobs never move on pvp servers, and you always have a clear spot of ground to mez them because no mobs ever go on ramps or areas where you can't free target mez them. Just thought I'd mention that here to be a jerk.

    Also, maybe I'm rusty, but isn't deadening wave the 8 target mez, and isn't the stare mez capped at 6 targets?
  3. Xikteny Augur

    Perilous Bafflement's mana cost penalty can be high enough to be annoying if you're trying to mezz a LARGE number of targets for a long period of time. That's really the only situation that's ever driven me to use normal Bafflement.
    Sindaiann likes this.
  4. Sindaiann Augur

    The fact you really insinuate that maybe I have not considered this before the statement is laughable, but whatever.

    So lets look at a couple things

    1) Chaotic Bewildering is 100% used by people (including myself) who click their clockwork automaton and mezz the eye, and then use their 105 and 100 nukes for the benefit of the twincast from it. So insinuating I forgot a mezz doesn't really apply (although technically accurate), considering what the post was actually about. Can it mezz? Yes up to level 108 and loses 10% over the cap of 105 per level.

    2) Deadening Wave actually seems to only be 5 mob limit now. And Stare is only grabbing 6. Could of swore the difference was 6 and 8 previously unless I was drunk (possible). To prove this I just went and rounded up 7 mobs (stopped at 7 as neither were grabbing the 7th) and this was the result (and yes they were all stacked right on top of each other).


    [Mon May 09 07:22:28 2016] You begin casting Deadening Wave Rk. III. - Deadening Wave
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Diverting Ensouled Shoulders flickers with a pale light.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] You protect yourself by reflex.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Anodyne Stare Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Anodyne Stare Rk. III spell has worn off of a gleeful citizen.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] A gleeful citizen gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Anodyne Stare Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Anodyne Stare Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] Your Anodyne Stare Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:30 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. - 5 total

    [Mon May 09 07:22:41 2016] You begin casting Deadening Wave Rk. III. - Deadening Wave
    [Mon May 09 07:22:42 2016] You are filled with pulsing mana.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] Your Diverting Ensouled Shoulders flickers with a pale light.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] A gleeful citizen gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:43 2016] A functionary gazes happily into space. - 5 total



    [Mon May 09 07:21:39 2016] You begin casting Anodyne Stare Rk. III. - Anodyne Stare
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] Your Deep Sleep VIII spell has worn off of a favored functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] Your Deep Sleep's Malaise spell has worn off of a favored functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] Your Diverting Ensouled Shoulders flickers with a pale light.
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A gleeful citizen feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary is stunned by an overpowering stare.
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary is stunned by an overpowering stare.
    [Mon May 09 07:21:40 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. - 6 total
    [Mon May 09 07:22:56 2016] You begin casting Anodyne Stare Rk. III. - Anodyne Stare
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Diverting Ensouled Shoulders flickers with a pale light.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your spell was partially successful.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary enters a deep sleep.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Deadening Wave Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Deadening Wave Rk. III spell has worn off of a gleeful citizen.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A gleeful citizen is stunned by an overpowering stare.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A gleeful citizen feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Deadening Wave Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Deadening Wave Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] Your Deadening Wave Rk. III spell has worn off of a functionary.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. -
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary is stunned by an overpowering stare.
    [Mon May 09 07:22:57 2016] A functionary feels very sleepy. - 6 total

    3) Play styles vary but here are a couple facts.

    Deadening Wave recast - 5secs
    Anodyne Stare recast - 5 secs

    Deadening Wave cast time - (4secs base) 2.0secs
    Anodyne Stare cast time- (3 secs base) 1.5secs

    Deadening Wave mezz limit - 5
    Andoyne Stare mezz limit - 6

    Deadening Wave - needs direct LOS
    Anodyne Stare - hits 6 mobs within 30AE range of free target location drop up IE, you can use it nearly around a corner and mezz things within that range of the drop

    Deadening Wave - does not have elevation issues, granted you have LOS
    Anodyne Stare - 100% has elevation issues, hate this

    Deadening Wave - you can mezz yourself if you somehow tashed yourself or a mob tashed you
    Anodyne Stare - you can not mezz yourself

    Deadening Wave - useful in a kite scenario where multiple mezz mobs are being kited and you need to mezz (as you said)
    Anodyne Stare - can be used in this situation as well, but requires timing the free target location just ahead of the kite

    4) Bafflement. This one was not forgotten. It shares the same timer as perilous, does not mezz for as long, but has a lower mana cost to utilize. In certain situations it is useful, like, "OH crap I just died, Gather Mana is down, I only have a little mana from a mod rod or mind crystal and mobs need mezzed!" Yes Bafflement is better because it does not require 10% mana to cast like Perilous does. But as you said, this one is basically useless.

    So to recap, don't call Chaotic Bewildering a mezz, we all know how it gets used. And hey I am glad you like to use Deadening Wave, congrats. To each their own. At the end of the day if you get the job done, that is all that matters.

    The post in response to the thread that it actually resided in was due to the person claiming they mezz themselves or the fact it was even still possible. It was NOT a post about, "Hey we have 16 billion spells, here is what they all are in alphabetical order!"

    So maybe calling it useless struck a nerve, but it is an opinion which everyone is open to interpret and use how they see fit. So I will reword it. Deadening Wave is in certain situations OK!

    PS - I don't wish to post parse numbers and crap on these threads as people love to bash and call for nerfs, but hit me up in game to compare parses on things like Wither and Decay and such. Would love to discuss a few things and see what you think.
  5. Ismel Augur

    Deadening Wave is mostly good for raids, as you can spam cast it on mobs that are not yet active, and it is infinity better at hitting mobs that are being kitted.
    The fact that its still bugged, and you can mez your self with it its ....... annoying, for everything else Stare is clearly superior.

    One occasionally useful thing about chaotic mez is that it do not blur mobs, so if you need to keep something on hold at low hp its a good choice.
  6. Ravengloome Augur

    Its not a bug that is how all targeted AE's work since like forever.

    Also bafflement used to proc deep sleep so it was good for AE slow and has high blur chance so was good for that,in a pinch. (It might still proc deep sleep but I haven't paid attention to chanters in the last year and I know they changed deep sleep)
  7. Xikteny Augur

    Am I the only one who just uses Chaotic as my only single-target mez 24/7? :oops:
    KaoK, Brohg and RPoo like this.
  8. RPoo Augur

    No Xik you're not alone!
    The best mez ever is echoing madness. Let's all start chanting UPGRADE UPGRADE UPGRADE UPGRADE UPGRADE!
  9. Siddar Augur

    Wave is less effort to use. Stare takes more situational awareness but doesn't have risk of mezzing yourself. Stare has a higher risk of complete failure caused by need to ground target and also takes longer to cast because of ground targeting. Wave is easier to use while using extended target as your main source of targeting information that again will make wave a faster reaction then stare.

    I tend to prefer wave simply because it requires less effort on a boxed enchanter. Wave is definitely going to be the better choice for box enchanters. I also like using it on TBM Hate raids. Place Tash totem then once aura appears on mob you know there finally close enough to mezz.

    They're both good mezzes and if you like one better then the other use the one you prefer.
  10. KaoK Lorekeeper

    Wave has always had a 5 mob cap and Stare has always been 6. It's been that way since forever and there is even an old Elidroth post responding to a question I asked about the discrepancy in the # or about increasing it. I only mention the latter as a point that it has been a thing for a while.

    I only use it as well for my single heh

    But yeah sorry... Deadening Wave is not awesome. I think I've used Wave once in the past year. Maybe. It's easier to use but if you are maining an Ench and have been using Stare forever you know how to ground target, you can judge exactly when to start casting to have it land on INC mobs, etc. Wave is just the lazy AE mez with a penalty of potentially mezzing yourself. I never recommend people to use it as I think it's a vastly inferior spell compared to Stare.

    If you find Wave useful, well, buy yourself a cookie.

    I miss that spell :( It still has uses though!
    RPoo likes this.
  11. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    All you guyz forgot first rule of Ench Club :(
  12. Sindaiann Augur

    Totally agree! I would love a new EM. Hell give us content like Sendaii the Hive Queen again where EM was so useful to use!

    You always are so much more politically correct than I am. It just reminds me of a conversation we had about enchanters never getting along! Hahaha

    PS - Not sure why I thought it was 6 and 8? Too many kids and not enough booze.
    KaoK likes this.
  13. KaoK Lorekeeper

    Six kids and eight boxes of wine? :p jk
  14. Sindaiann Augur

    4 kids, and you said you were going to send me some wine! I didn't forget! haha
  15. gotwar Gotcharms

    srsly guys we're gonna get more nerfbats! shaaataap!!

    On a slightly more serious note, does anyone actually use the Bewildering line, rather than Chaotic? As if we don't already need 4 more spell slots, loading both of these would seem .... unwise.

    On topic, I think Wave vs Stare is situational, and neither spell can be called "useless". Particularly for "new" enchanters, wave is much easier to use (practice your skill shots!), though I agree that Stare is certainly a far more versatile, powerful, and useful spell.

    Lastly, why are we even talking about this! Why am I even posting? We all need to start dying to light blue cons for a few patches, preferably in a very public location, as many times as possible.
  16. KaoK Lorekeeper

    H8 every other Enchanter and their playstyle? No... I think this thread got it right. :)
    Xikteny likes this.
  17. Sindaiann Augur

    I just realized this is on track to accomplish about as much as that thread that Drake just resurrected (typed Darke and it got spell checked and I liked it).

    Let's stop now.
    KaoK likes this.
  18. Blurred_Memories Augur

    nope... its the only single target mez i mem.. on rare rare rare occasions i'll mem the lure one if i just absolutely need to guarantee an initial mez to pull... but its been a few years.
  19. Blurred_Memories Augur

    in my wettest dreams
  20. Brohg Augur

    Fire & Forget Akkapanning?