New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

I find it very suspicious that your "entire reason for being an SK" only even arguably and waveringly arose around level 75ish, eight years into the game's life. It's possible, of course, that you've simply been bad at recognizing existing balance; if that's what you want to tell the class then I'll believe it.
Moving up from the past, though, I find ludicrous the suggestion that your reasons for being an SK don't now include very good utility like snare and both types of invis, plus FD, and strengths in AE agro, and powerful self healing.
It's even further far-fetched that you unlike every other kid wearing a trench coat to high school didn't roll an SK simply because Death Knight Bad Guy Black Armor Blargh Rar Rar.

What color is the sky in your world? SKs were always meant to be more dps than Warriors and have only suffered periods of time where they were not, not the other way around. And I dunno about you but when I created my toon, no one had much of an idea of what utility was coming down the line.

Hah, but to be clear, I meant 2004-2011, not 2000. I was counting vie/absorb discs separate from Guardian discs. Warriors got Phalanx in 2011, knights got Guardian (their first mitigation disc) in 2013. Not to count Mantle and Carapace/Armor lines were significantly weaker in 2010 than they are today (even ignoring the DP stacking.)

During the post-Phalanx / pre-DP period, warriors were buffed with Phalanx, knights were buffed with stronger + more discs. In betas back then, warriors would also request a 2nd mini defensive or vie disc, or even 3 like knights, no warrior asked for full time 25% mitigation buff back then. FYI, most knights in beta forums at the time were against warriors getting a 2nd disc.

The situation you're trying to stereotype is 1000x worse with male barbarian toons in Norrath, imo, especially with male barbarian Warriors (and the occasional Shaman or Rogue). Big musclebound tuff guy rawr fightin' things look at me guyz!

They need to be forcibly race/gender/class changed, for the good of all =P.

You must of not paid much attention to the entire first decade or more the game was out we was 20% ahead of you for years and the only time after that you was meant to be ahead was when you was burning and not tanking. Making things up doesn't help you prove anything. Most of the warriors that post here have played since the beginning.

Come on back at the beginning only the slow kids chose warrior because they only had one button to hit.

I am surprised to see you posting, I didn't even know you still played, Still on Bristle?

I don't know what SK's are getting for burns but did enslaver mission with a war friend. He wears cotf t1 raid gear and has gloves and bow from TDS because they can only win the first raid so far. War friend burned for 135k during that phase. Are SKs burning this high? With how dps are burning today, Sks must be getting 200 - 300k then ? How much should a tank burn for ?

Yup still on BB, never have taken a break. I just never post here. I find all the info Ive ever needed at EGN, and before that shadowknight.org. I just come over here to see what all the stink is about. The SK over there reported massive and warriors gnashing their teeth and tearing their codpieces. Which accounts for Mistake saying the age old chestnut "oh what a cute first post" poor attempt at a jab. Come over to a real forum and check my post count there.

LOL - quoted so you can't edit this later.

We are not burning that high.

Why would I edit it when it was true ?

On which phase the beginning that lasts 30 seconds or less? If your not doing at least 130 -150 k in that time your not really burning?

Lets say a SK and war both do 135k DPS vs a group mob.

Who do you think would have the better parse vs a high mitigation raid mob? (aka every raid mob post-TDS)

Who do you think would do the better DPS from a tank group?

You certainly are parsing that high when there's Mana Burn involved, as there must have been for that warrior to pair with his 12sec/20min force-proc AA.

Cute jab . Speaking for myself: Barbarians were the only "good guys" with Slam to interrupt CHealing frogs/kobolds. Warriors couldn't use shields to Bash in those days, of course, since agro was broke as straight through to Underfoot. I actually swapped races to Wood Elf for several years once that option became available, but was since pressured by the nostalgia of friends to "restore" the character. Filthy casuals, maybe once they all retire I'll re-return to my true branch-level home.

We aren't parsing 200 - 300k is what I was referring to. We generally have 3 necros, so even changing out spell sets on a burn mob we don't get to dot. Yes we can hit 135k, I was referring to the 200-300k.

on a sub 30s parse with Mana Burn to ride, as was described, you should be much higher than 135k. In the more "real" raid scenario you're describing, in which you get 135k? That warrior would be closer to 35 than 135.

/GU Anashti Sul, Lady of Life in 56s, 6421k @114656sdps --- Viltaire 6421k@114656sdps (114656dps in 56s) [100%]

Not sub 30seconds, couldn't find one in my log, but we drop off significantly as time goes on. This is burning her down from 100% to 70% to turn her to Lady of Decay. Which means no disease, so no using spear or gift of the quick spear. I did learn I need to clean out my log file again it's way too big again.

I've primarily stayed out of this thread and will probably continue to do so as all it is has been the same eight people, four on each side, arguing with each other. So sub 30seconds, which we don't seem to do on raid mobs, yeah could probably hit 200k with everything timed right, we won't hit 300k though and we fall off quickly from there on a burn.

Warriors used Imperator's Charge when these abilities first came out because the devs royally botched Imperator's Command. After they fixed Imperator's Command, that's the go to choice and yes, it's decent utility (one problem still exists, it doesn't stack with knight stuff, that should be fixed.)

re: Charge. Thing is, spell haste is capped at 50%, and bene spells are already hasted 40% with cleric buffs + focus. And most clerics (at least the one I know) don't cast many hastable heals (only group heals.) Meaning, in a tank group it's of very minimal benefit to use charge over command. FYI, they do stack if you have multiple warriors. Maybe if there are multiple druid / shaman in the group it'd be worth using it.

In group content I often use Precision if there is a nuker in the group.

Gut punch was heavily nerfed a few years ago, then they dramatically upped the resistance of physical discs, so it's a crap shot as to whether if it will land well on a raid or not. Knee Strike and Roar are even worst at landing. Knuckle Crush line was always a joke.

I also see you conveniently left out SK epic. What would you rather have as a cleric? A warrior lowering your group heal's cast time by 0.3s during AEs, or a SK casting epic allowing the meleeing chars in the group to help heal themselves through AE damage? I also see you left out HA, which can help dramatically speed up add killing if there's an out of place add. They removed warriors' 'somewhat' version of HA, Warlord's Grasp (it still exists, just doesn't move mobs anymore.) Yes, both of these abilities are now level capped.

Again with the randomness huh p2aa?

The same knights that raid tank at 30% DP would still be able to tank at 15% DP.

Even if you wanted to keep the 75/25 knight hybrid ratio (war/clr or war/nec)... you would have to give ~23% DP. And that number would likely need to be rounded up to 25% for those who want to drop the KS 5% completely.