Lockjaw Class Option Question

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Bewts, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. Bewts Augur

    My main setup is the following.

    CLR BRD WAR WIZ WIZ ENC
    The first three listed are all epic now.

    I've been leveling a SK SHM NEC NEC and DRU just for flexibility in doing things, access to buffs if needed, or super shammy slows. The level 40's will be 60 within the next two weeks give or take. My account breakdown (only using 6 is the following):

    60 CLR
    60 WAR 50 PAL 40 SK
    60 WIZ 50 MAG 40 DRU
    60 WIZ 40 NEC
    60 ENC 40 NEC
    60 BRD 40 SHM

    Going forward, what is probably the most powerful option to build around?

    Keep in mind, unless DBG changes anything I'm going to be spending the next 8 months split between Kunark and Velious.

    I could stick to the original WIZ boomstick setup
    I could run three Pets (MAG NEC NEC)
    I could build around a Charm setup (CLR SK DRU ENC SHM WIZ)

    Or, I could dump the idea of doing things on my own and join the Darth side. I hear they need Bards.
  2. Ultrazen Augur

    Cleric, SK, Mage, Wiz, Chanter, Shaman IMO.

    It's a shame your mage and druid are on the same account, because CLR, SK, Mage, Chanter, Wiz, Druid is pretty much the perfect group. Shaman is kind of meh in a mostly caster group, and bard songs don't effect pets until AA.

    Synergy between druid, mage, and chanter is really all you need to do everything for most of the game, regardless of expansion.

    That being said, that group is more than enough to beat anything in Kunark or Velious. Hell, you could 2 box the shaman and SK and do most of the content.
  3. Batbener Augur

    Paladin druid is a VERY underrated combo. The druid isn't the best healer, but the paly can do a bit of that, and the paladin makes up for the druid not being able to rez. That does you zero good because you are set running a cleric.

    My second suggestion would be trinity plus DPS. Warrior cleric enchanter necro mage and wizzie. The trinity is pert near impossible to kill, and the three DPS classes all have different types of sustained DPS and all add at least one nifty utility(FD, rez, pet weapons, COH, Port and probably a few others I am missing). That doesn't work for you, either.

    I personally think enchanter with a bard or shaman is redundant, but I see the appeal, especially for some harder mobs, or some creative pulling, or raiding. I think the best group with the way you have it set up is cleric, warrior, wiz, mage, necro and bard. You will have some limitations with mez/charm and especially slow, and don't have the best mana regen, but if you keep leveling all the toons, you can KEI for 4 hours at PoP so that's not really an issue. DPS trumps all in EQ, and that will give you the best DPS, especially if the bard is charming. If the mobs aren't standing long, slow isn't an issue on most fights. I might do the enchanter instead of the necro, depending on your computer set up and ability to box. Charming as a chanter with 5 gets a little overwhelming for me, but it's great DPS. Lastly, you could swap out the warrior for the paly or SK for more tank utility. In 15 years of playing EQ, I have found the best tank is the one you prefer. There have been a million times where I said, "Damn, I wish I would have rolled a warrior, paladin or SK instead!"
  4. Batbener Augur

    I went paly, enchanter, druid, and necro on rage. I am currently leveling up a monk in the paly slot and mage in the Necro slot. I am actually kind of curious as to which one I will end up keeping long term.
  5. Zhutuak Augur

    What exactly are you trying to accomplish? If you are trying to take down motm buffed minis or bosses, I would counter what Batbener posted and say that slow trumps everything. Obviously this will not always be the case but it looks like you are well on you way to having alot of flexibility.

    As far as boxing more then one toon who is actively charming, that might become exceptionally messy when they begin to break simultaneously. I too have a druid and chanter in my box but I only charm w/ the enchanter. Since I do not use 3rd party software, it just becomes entirely too much to manage, not to mention the druid has a more limited selection on the pets.

    I typically will only haste my chanter pet if I feel like the fight will be too close, on one particular attempt on Terror, haste dropped off the warrior and my chanter pulled agro shortly after even w/o haste and well, luckily there was a mage army standing by waiting for me to fail and to rezz me back in.

    I do not agree, especially depending on what is the objective. To me, slow trumps everything. If I can get it slowed, there is a good chance I can kill it. Shammy has so much flexibility as far as slows go, eventually gaining the disease based line. Their sta & hp buffs help to keep the tank alive and we all know, if it is a high level encounter, you live or die by keeping the tank up. If there is a mage in group, then a shaman could be considered redundant to an extent but I personally would choose a wiz for the lure line of spells. I personally run w/ clr/dru/sham/chant/wiz/war, wis heavy for sure.

    It really boils down to, what level of encounters are you trying to over come? Even then with your flexibility, it seems like you will be able to sub in and out to find the suitable combination for each encounter.
  6. Bewts Augur


    I can actually make this work as my friend plays a chanter (who's leveling with my "alt" group).

    I just excluded it as it wasn't pertinent to the accounts I pay for myself.

    It actually makes life better as he'd be dealing with the charm pet and charm breaks while I manage everything else.

    Currently I use audio triggers from GINA to let me know when charm breaks (when I do actually use charm). Simplifies things a bit in that respect.

    Generally speaking for Velious (because I'm done with most Kunark things I want):
    Farm HoT
    Make Turtle Soup
    Lord Bob
    Harla Dar (maybe)
    Maybe, just maybe take a run at Doze too.

    Of course as all these guys seem to be put on motm, it makes doing anything with a single group increasingly difficult where even in-era people were doing it with less than raid numbers. Hell, shaman were soloing Lodi and now that sounds like it'll be a challenge for a single group.

    It's actually disappointing that so much "raidable" content for smaller groups is now made exclusive to raid sizes only.

    Of course, making a few friends of boxing groups and we could explore these options is always possible (as we've discussed Z).
    Batbener likes this.
  7. Zhutuak Augur

    I would think if you are hoping to do buffed npc`s, you will need a second healer, which will come in handy for when both the tank needs a heal as well as the chanter due to pet breaking. Personally I would go w/ the shammy & wiz and swap out mage/necro as needed, if possible.
  8. Moranis Augur

    I personally find the trinity (War / Clr / Enc) + 3 pet classes to be the tops, especially for boxing.

    In your case, maybe War / Clr / Ench / Bard / Nec / Nec because your 6th acct is Bard / Shaman. Bard or Shaman in the 6th spot will probably produce equal results...if you're feeling bold you might want to add another necro / mage here. Also, with this much DPS you probably won't be needing to pet charm with the chanter. Kudos that you can do that with a 6-box...I personally get annoyed pet charming with a 4-box.

    To me, the pet classes give you so much flexibility to damage highly MR mobs. Necros especially, because even most highly MR mobs can be tagged with Splurt and the fire DOTs.
  9. Dobs Elder

    I love these sorta questions! I am running a 5 comp myself, and looking into add a 6th at some point

    Lemme try and pitch in with my own ideas.

    I went with Paladin over Warrior. The Sactification disc can prove useful, albeit the warrior defensive disc is just so powerful. I personally opted into the utility of the paladin though. The rez, the HoT (in velious), the perma stuns with the 2 new stuns, the group heals, BBB (divine glory i think its called). Could have debated SK for the burn, as its just really powerful. Guess it comes down to a matter of preference.

    No one can argue with enchanter and cleric. Just so strong. My original setup was a 4 box with Paladin, Druid, Enchanter and Necromancer. All of them added heals in form of either direct heal, shadowbond or runes (bedlam, cos im to cheap for Rune 5) and Jeldorin. They honestly did a bang up job and especially with mobs slowed, then i hardly ever had to do anything but a shadowbond. I've come to realize that erudites in plate are just to awesome, so i had to add a 5th. And in all fairness i could use both the group heal and the CH, as it would free the druid to focus on "dps". And the extra symbol + druid skin in velious on top of C2, twitch (and perhaps bard regen), i would never run oom on anything.. Ever!

    As for slows and debuffs; I know shamans have the better slows, but in reality in the current state of the game, you dont really need the bit extra slow (in group content atleast, can argue differently on dragons) that shamans bring. The buffs are nice for your tank, but then thats it. Overlapping chanter AND shaman is a bad idea as you miss out on so much more. So i am a fan of bringing one, and i've settled on enchanter. Slow usually lands, albeit i envy shamans for their disease based slow at times, but i'll manage. In return i get C2 and enlightenment for my entire group along with more MR and runes and a 30 minute haste (WITH ac). Because i hate having to rebuff haste every 15 mins.

    As for the DPS; I thought much about this. The Boomstick Setup (wizards). There's something so gratifying watching a mob "despawn" as it reaches your camp. But the bane spells vs dragons and giants costs reagents, and again, i am too cheap.

    The Pet Setup (Necro & Mages) is a solid choice. Mage more over than necros as mages are just so simple to get a highish successrate on (/pet Attack -> /Cast Nuke), where as necros take more attention as you need to watch for dots, and the pet is somewhat weaker than mage pets. Also mages bring that love CoH. Who doesnt love doing nothing to get to a camp?

    I've come to think that the setup that works for me is counting on charms. Kael with have dire wolfs that quad for the same as dragoons in chardok. Wolfs are charmable by both enchanters and druids. And with how charm work atm, it way out damages any mage or necro (and wiz?) you can come across, when not putting your full attention into them. The charm breaks can be stressful, but i like the challange myself. Chardok enables a necro to charm aswell. So then you'd be having 3 x 220 quad pets, more or less annihalating anything you come across. With cleric and pally stuns along with necro 15sec fast cast mez, recharming is really a breeze.

    So my setup is this: Paladin, Enchanter, Cleric, Druid, Necromancer, (Bard or Necromancer)

    Adding a necromancer or bard as the 6th member. Mages doesnt go well with a dot setup of the druid / necro. It would be terribly in-effecient in the long run. But then again; CoH.I am still undecided.
    And if i should even chose to slack and do some DoT damage instead of charming, the druid and the necro just adds SO much. ports, regen, ds, sow, str (for he pally because highelf lol), resists, charm, dots (Magic and Fire like necro), heals, and thats just the druid.
    For he necro... Man necromancers rock! Biggest one for me is fd + rez. Because i up.. Alot. And having that in itself is just brilliant heh. Other than that you have dots (sustained dps and fire / splurt usually land on anything as the post above me states), pets, charm, twitch, heals, conjure corpse and i bet i am missing something else. Just a really fracking awesome class.
    Bard would be decent for 6th spot tbh. Come Luclin and i get the damage mods songs, which would rock, along with pet affinity, so haste songs would benefit pets too. And that is just not stating the obvious with regen, pulling, selos (omg selos!) and most importantly, resists.

    Again, i love these discussions. I recently tried a melee team as well consisting of Paladin, Shaman, Ranger, Rogue, Bard.. But the downfall of not being able to focus 100% on the bard when hits the fan is just to severe in a group setting. And not having a 96% rez or a fracking port in amelee setting where non can bind and they are scattered all across norrath is just so much extra work. Ofcourse i could soulbind and buy gate potions, but im cheap!

    Just my 2cp. Good luck in velious man.
  10. Bewts Augur

    Talk about text walling Dobs ;)

    Game referencing aside, something you may be discounting on shaman is the impact Malo has when charming. The two variables you can control to minimize charm breaks are Charisma (gear/buff choices) and the MR of the mob. Tash + Malo represents around a 100 MR decrease at level 60 compared to tash which is only 40 I think?

    That said, in theory you're decreasing the chance a failed MR check 1.5x with Malo compared to purely using Tash. This could be de minimus overall, but as you find higher level mobs you can charm in later expansions that hit like a truck - the less charm breaks the better.

    I've settled for my original group for now as it is pretty clear I'll have to work with other like-minded boxing players to achieve some of the ends in Velious. I will be leveling alts as I find time, and maybe the Shaman will end up replacing the bard where I abuse the power of charm from time to time and resists aren't an issue.

    If I'm just grinding away, the pet bots may be a better option where mana is a limiting factor for mobs killed per hour if I find I have to med. Of course, when I have to grind again it will be for AA and KEI and horses will be available too so mana may not be such an "issue" then and the question will be if the warrior can maintain aggro through multiple nukes with wizards. Right now, mobs don't have the HP for it to make much of a difference because once I unleash a rain followed by a DD the majority of trash goes poof.