XP Changes Post-Patch

Highpass - I'd imagine nobles from what I know of what's killable there for XP. And from what was said, just ping-ponging backstab aggro and getting healed from it.

I've never been at maxed stored AA, does it force you to earn regular exp? I suppose one could make the argument that post 51 you could sell/give away deaths to a necromancer to maintain a certain level as early as Kunark anyways though.

You can perpetually buy "junk" AA's. Glyph of Unknown Effect or something. So you can pop it all into AA and never need to earn regular experience. (These are real junk AA's, only there to dump experience -- DBG just added another one that you can buy for more).

This is what kills me about those too lazy or too broken to acknowledge their personal progress is entirely in their own hands IF the xp rate is sufficient in the first place.

Its as ill thought out as people clamoring for an increase of their income taxes to keep themselves from getting too rich.
Huh?
Forest Gump was right, it is as it does.

after testing this out for the last few days I can say I have not really noticed much of a change at 48, I seem to have to kill just as many mobs now for a 1% gain as I did pre-patch.

I guess it's been increased but it sure is not very noticeable at higher levels.

Its like they just forgot everything ever learned about this game the last couple of decades and went back to full tilt bozo with contradictions. Its not 15 years ago, the slow grind failed to the day people got a real choice. I know I was there to see it.
Can one TLP that caters to the "I aint got anything better to do" element support EQ/DBG? It better because Ive a idea everything else is falling fast. Phinny is just not going to appeal to people with any real value of their spare time or spare cash. Heck I love playing EQ but nothing they have released in the last two years made that true. For that matter we haven't even logged into live or a TLP in the last month and that means the subs are going to get canceled, I don't like wasting money or time. Hate it but no getting around reality.

Honestly the more I toy with it - it seems to me something like the following is accurate:

Red Con: No change
Yellow Con: No (or minor) change
White Con: +25%ish (I'd honestly say it felt more like 10% - but I'll assume the figures in the OP were closer to accurate than my feel)
Blue Con: +25%ish
Light Blue Con: +50%ish or more (drastic jump in what my L50s got grinding stuff with my L40 alt)
Green Con - untested since it's not applicable to the camps I've done.

In summation: It seems to me more like an overall "reduction to the low con penalties" that were placed on the server more than a true XP buff.

Interesting, i'm not really seeing the higher light blue exp, but of course a lot depends on mob and zone ZEM as well, I was compareing killing Sea Furries before and after the patch.

They are all light blue at 48 (some used to be dark blue at 47), before the patch it would take 5 or 6 kills per 1% ... and now it still seems to take 5 or 6 to get 1%.. no noticeable change for me.

There are people that like the 1-50 grind. This is the game they enjoy.
There are people that like the 1-50 grind and also like the raiding game.
There are people that hate the 1-50 grind but like the raid game.

If the exp is low, people in group #1 will grind the first toon but won't do all the alts they could. The second group will live through the slow exp but probably won't alt much as they'll just focus on raiding. The third group won't get past level 5 before they quit.

If the exp is really high, group #1 might complain because one character levels too fast but they can easily create other characters and stagger which they play. The second group will quickly get to max level and raid a lot until there's nothing to farm where they will create lots of alts. The third group will race to max level say "Thank goodness that's over" and remain on the server as full-time Raiders.

High exp is easier to work around than low exp and brings more people onto the server. Phinny is experiencing a pro-instancing population benefit. But once people with high end toons start to retire who is going to replace that server activity? Current players can't add boxed characters. The obvious choice is to entice group three to level and join the raiding community. At some point DBG will boost Phinny exp, but as always, it'll be too late to attract the third group who no longer cares that exp is now acceptable.

You'd think with 17 years of customer data DBG would know the above. But when you have bad leadership/management you make stupid decisions.

Oh well.

Pretty much this... While I don't totally like the grind, every game I played I always made alts but I refuse til this day to make any on this server because of the slow xp.. I just don't find the enjoyment of lvling a alt worth the time involved to level one.. Now if the XP was say 60-66%ish of RF/LJ(which by the way I actually made alot of alts on those servers but couldn't stand the end game drama) I would totally make alot of alts on this server and maybe just MAYBE alot of other people would too and help keep the pre-50 game alive...

Want further proof that XP is too slow on Phinny? Quest XP exploits existed for MONTHS on RF/LJ, but weren't a big problem until Phinny, where "traditional" XP is too hard to come by (and still is post-patch).

Sure, players are smart and will find the best path. Even when taking into account fixing combat skills and so forth, skipping the first 10 to 15 levels on Phnny was worth the 1kpp or so investment for levelling alts, and plenty of people were willing to AFK farm the stuff to get that money, satisfying the supply / demand requirement. Note that this really wasn't a rampant problem until the server was 4-5+ weeks old, and the curve was approaching 50 and was flush with cash and looking to roll a new toon. But most importantly, it was *never* a major problem on RF/LJ. Sure it existed, but as shadow of how it becomes to be a problem on Phinny...which is why it had to be "fixed".

The same exact curve unfolded on RF/LJ, but you didn't see the mad rush to quest XP exploits like you did on LJ (exception: bone chips for Kunark). Gee...I wonder why that is? Perhaps it could be because the XP rate was appropriately balanced for the unlock window, so that the majority of people PLAYED THE GAME AS INTENDED instead of embracing asinine workarounds for lame- design balance that made no damned sense to begin with?

And as completely expected, DBG came up with the nerf-solution instead of the fix-the-root-problem solution. They nerfed ALL quest XP (in the guise of a "fix"), whereas the problem that needing "fixing" was never a REAL problem on RF an LJ to begin with!!!! Only on Phinny where XP rate sucked canal water was quest XP exploit a real problem. Facts are facts. History is proof.

I'm not saying that those exploited quests didn't need fixing. They absolutely did (and *only* the exploits should have been nerfed...but that's another discussion). But the fact is, they were lived with for 6+ months on RF/LJ and it wasn't a BIG problem until Phinny where the ridiculously slow XP rate made them all the more enticing. That combined with DBG's lack of resources for actually policing AFK behavior made it a big problem.

The right fix was to fix the XP so that the majority of players stop looking for the other solutions. Think about it...nobody likes playing a L20 with 0 Offense, 0 Defense. Its not fun. Nobody like breaking the rules with AFK farming or AFK combat with Pets to overcome these terrible design decisions, but with the ABSENCE of an actual police force, they'll do exactly that, if the alternative is BORRRRRIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGGGGG.

Which is worse DBG? You don't have the ability to police the players to make them play the way you want, so why not for a change let them play the way THEY want? You still have rampant AFK farming, and you always will have, given your resources availability. Have you not heard of if you can't beat'em, join'em? You will NEVER eliminate the POTENTIAL for the bad behavior in this area with your resouces!!! You need to eliminate the MOTIVATION for it!!!

Again, it's not rocket science. This "problem" was not a problem until the proper levels of MOTIVATION were there on Phinny because of it's imbalanced design. You slapped a band-aid instead of looking at the root problem, which was the slow XP rate.

I mandate that the BEST fix would have been to just use a reasonably balanced XP rate to begin with. Sure you'll still have some min-maxers who PL using Quest XP or PL using druids or what not (the later of which is unavoidable without fundamentally changing what the game is), just as you did on RF/LJ, but it wouldn't be the *RAMPANT* *PROBLEM* it became on Phinny all because of the ridiculously low XP rate coupled with uber-fast unlocks.

But I guess that just makes too much sense lol...

I appreciate the fact that leveling an alt or re-rolling to something else is actually pretty significant endeavor that takes a bit of commitment to it if you decide to do it. This is an opinion created by just returning back to EQ after spending the past 11 years playing WoW where it's absolutely trivial to have 6+ max level characters on the same account (lots of people i know have even more) so everyone is just constantly re-rolling to whatever is currently the flavor of the month (you can even just outright purchase a max level character there now).

People here are seem pretty committed to whatever their chosen main is.

Yea, but unlike WoW, if you get bored of the class you can't reroll. The best option is to stop playing. GG.

Can't? Or are just too lazy?

Even IF you are someone who feels the game starts with raids and the leveling process is purely a chore... there is still an element of completion and accomplishment to doing it. My experience in past top guilds was almost always that people who bought a main were liable to quit. I always assumed that anyone who didn't level a char personally would quickly quit and I was rarely proven wrong.

Yes the xp here is still a bit too slow and yes the nerf to quest xp was wretched, but a flip too hard in the instant gratification direction is not the answer either. We need the most dull levels (1-10) dramatically increased, and we need to relevant levels (say the highest 5 expansion-depending) to take some effort to get through.

Sadly this describes the majority of the MMORPG populace right now. Theoretically, Pantheon understands that their market is a small percentage of the populace and are not trying to cater to mass appeal. However, I'm not holding my breath given the past and even current drama and concerns surrounding Brad and the project. Still, the marketing concept is something I'd like to see more of.

I don't have a problem at face value of someone like Tulgin having their absolutely insane antithesis of EverQuest ideas, but I do have a problem with them trying to force it into EverQuest. He'd be much happier playing a different game. But yeah, if a classic EQ era game design MMORPG released today that set out from the get go with "We understand we're targeting a niche subsection of the MMORPG market, and we will tell anyone trying to force us into modern/mainstream ideals to sit and spin" I'd check that out in a heart beat. If/when Pantheon manifests into a tangible product, I'll be among the first to check it out.

To be lazy about something means that that something requires enough work that people would be lazy about it. When you get to the point that something is so much work that people are "lazy" about it, then your not playing a game anymore, your just at work.

So if people are being "Lazy" then the game is already designed incorrectly and really isn't a game at all as a game is defined as something we do for fun in our spare time.

So while the answer isnt that they "can't" do it, but that they choose not to do ut due to the amount of no fun, non gamelike work that it requires.

So because they did the work once you deserve not have to do it again? That's called entitlement. And that is precisely what is wrong with the general MMO population today.

Phinny is already faster exp than classic ever was. Mobs give more exp, there are no racial exp penalties, and hell levels were removed. Would I have liked the exp gain to have been a little bit more? Sure, but that's because I'm leveling my 5th 50 (currently 46). You can't have your cake, eat it, AND expect not put on a little weight.

No, what I was saying was that when a video game becomes work for MOST people that is no longer a video game but work...and MOST sane human beings will quit a game that is no longer a game but has turned to work - which is exactly what we have seen from a large part of the population already. It will only get worse as attrition sets in and people leave and less people come because leveling on Phinny for most people is not fun, its work.

You're essentially describing the difference between a Family Guild and Raiding Guild in EverQuest. Raiding Guilds absolutely consider this a job.

With instancing, it doesn't have to be a "full time" job anymore and is very much a part time one, but a solid raiding guild member is one who has consistent attendance... kind of like a job. I could list several other job-like behaviors.

Family guilds earnestly didn't care if you showed up or not and laughed 10 consecutive wipes away because ol' Jimmy kept messing up the encounter. *Maybe* the officers/leader considered it a job, but but by no means did the members.

EverQuest being a second job drove this game in its prime. It built the relationships many of us hold these 17 years later. You may personally want this to require the equivalent of Candy Crush commitment, but it's precisely the opposite of your desires that built this game and the reason many of us are back and playing. Just as there always was, Phinigel has plenty of family guilds. I'd expect nothing less and it's great to see them. But, just as back then, they don't drive the helm -- nor do they care to as far as I've experienced.