Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Danille, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. Phrovo1 Augur

    I only do group content on the warrior. I thought this thread was talking about group content?
  2. Mayfaire Augur


    This thread is not in any way supposed to be about warriors at all. lol. But I was responding to your one button comment, is all. Even in group content, there are certain names and certain missions that this argument of "I take off all my armor, don't disc, and tank with the sheer power of my epic p e e n" is utterly ridic. Especially for group geared tanks.
  3. segap Augur


    Seriously, playing a war in the group game really is easy. My group geared warrior really does need to do nothing more than click two buttons for any group named I've ever encountered. One defensive macro and one aggro macro. That's all that's needed for named fights in group gear. I've never lost aggro to burning raid geared (and skilled) dps, pets or burning wiz mercs. DPS kills the named before the defensive ends. I'll still hit my mash button, but it is not necessary for anything other than staying active.

    For trash killing in a fast paced group, I do need to spam short refresh aggro abilities as stuff dies too quick for the bigger, longer cooldown aggro. But There is also no need for using any defensive beyond Stout (and I often forget to keep it up as it's tied to my pull macro and I'm not always pulling) for anything less than 3 or 4 mobs. It's also really hard in today's game to unintentionally pull more than 3 mobs at a time. Roamers are also a thing of the past for the most part so keeping aware for tagging adds really is not that crucial any more. If I want more than 4 at a time, then it comes down to hitting one defensive macro and one ae aggro macro.

    Group game even for group geared warriors is not that hard to do your job of holding aggro and not being a mana sponge. A couple of the TBM raid-lite missions are an exception. I do play in real groups (not boxed) and do not use any of that fancy third party crap (even when I do box). I'll give you that you can go beyond your job as a tank and do things like boost your measly dps. Great, dedicated warriors can maximize their value to a group through more active play.

    Raiding on the other hand is a different story (at least so I hear as I don't raid my warrior). I'll give you that in the environment that warriors are designed to shine, that all the tools come to play and it takes more effort and skill. But the original argument you were responding to was all about the group game.
  4. Mayfaire Augur


    1. Once again...BOXING equals doing easier content, and I have said myself here in this very forum many times that boxing a warrior is much easier than boxing a knight.

    2. I love how people who box alt warriors are trying to lecture me on what it takes to play a warrior. I didn't know this was a thing now. I have an alt druid and an alt mage. I guess I should follow Iila and Leex (just to name two off the top of my head) around and really give them the low down on how to play their toons. :rolleyes:

    3. In easy content, I agree that playing a warrior is easy. Yet, there is hard content that still exists in this game. I know this because I completed said hard content in groups and wrote off any idea that I would be boxing said content with my alts any time soon. I also still see people talking about struggling with said content here in the forums. There are hard missions, hard names and, of course, hard raids that all require a little bit more than hitting one disc, taunt and then afking to grab some coffee.

    I mean, really folks, it is getting ridiculous.

    P.S. - edited to add, I am very sorry I keep responding to this. This thread is not about warriors. But this is also how classes get nerfed. So, I am not going to sit here and let a bunch of people who play/box ALT warriors get my class nerfed because they want to act like warriors are so op we can hit 3 buttons and steamroll through any and all content while laser beams shoot out of our eyes.
  5. Gnomeland Augur


    I love how you brought the thread back with "you have no idea what you are talking about" and then three different Warrior players saw it and basically agreed with me.

    Yes, I know Warriors have other abilities, but the benefits of using those abilities are being exaggerated. The bulk of a Warrior's damage reduction comes from just 3-4 abilities: Defensive Proficiency, which is now automatic; Pain Doesn't Hurt; Brace for Impact; and Last Stand. Unless you're raiding and need to squeeze every last drop out of your Warrior, that's all you ever press. Sure, you could press Warlord's for that extra health, use the spire, keep those armor actives up, etc. But the difference they make is much smaller than the 3-4 abilities I listed.

    In fact, I'm pretty sure I quoted a thread in which it was shown that the difference between a raid Warrior and a group Warrior, in DPS from a monster, was about 5500 vs. 6000. That shows just how little difference all that extra armor makes. The main benefit of a raid Warrior, I'd even argue, is in the huge amount of health they have, which prevents bad rounds from killing the tank in group content. Outside of that, you're not making a big difference just by gaining a couple of hundred armor from your active.
  6. p2aa Augur

    For someone not playing a knight player, you seem to be way too much concerned about tank balance, when we look at the amount of posts you made in all the various threads since a few days, all posts being overly exagerated in favor of knighs and against warriors.
    Vdidar likes this.
  7. Gnomeland Augur

    Of course I care about it, because I need to decide which of my tanks to raid with.
  8. Igniz Augur

    Some people not playing a mage were awefully vocal about magician balance as well :) Looking at the amount of posts made by some warriors in all the various threads ...


    And no: I don't want warriors vengeance-nerfed. But your lobby's attitude killed any sympathies I might have had for you ...

    Edit: Funny thing is, warriors are on the boards en masse, foaming and raging, although they didn't even get a nerf. No! Other tankclasses might get a boost! THEY NEED TO PREVENT THAT!
  9. Gnomeland Augur

    And it's not just the past. Mages are still being nerfed with many Warriors in support - see the pet aggro threads. However, I'd observe that there are Warriors who have supported Mages in the past, so it's not all Warriors who fall into this behavior. Even so, I find it ridiculous when Warriors accuse others of whining when they frequently come up with the biggest whine threads.
  10. p2aa Augur

    What does your magician case have to do with tank class balance ? It's childish to say "some warriors bothered me" so i'm going to support knights because I don't like warriors. The case has been documented yet very well, knights MT as good if not better than warriors now, when warriors should get a significant enough mitigation advantage over knights when MT Raid Bosses.
  11. Igniz Augur

    No, I am supporting knights, especially SKs, as they desperately needed a boon for raid desirability.

    As for the rest of your post: I am not too convinced that Knights are suddenly superior in tanking to Warriors, even in a MT role in a raid. Warriors still have a ton of nifty tools and innate advantages.

    Warriors are, and will remain, THE best tanks - but knights might actually be viable again now, at least to jump in and safe the day after the MT chain has ended earlier than the mob's life ...

    What IS childish, however, is warriors coming to the forums and claiming that pets were tanking better than warriors, both survivability and aggro wise. The solution to that is: Learn your class and stop using Defiant Gear.
  12. p2aa Augur

    Can you prove it ?
    Just have a look at this.
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/how-does-the-dev-team-see-sks.218062/
    To what class belongs the player that started this thread ?

    This thread recapitulates well the following things from knights, that we see again now
    1) Downplaying their abilities to make them feel good
    2) Listing warrior abilities without having an understanding of their best use

    Warriors just answer to put back the truth in place.
  13. p2aa Augur


    You don't play a tank class, and you lack lot of understanding obviously of what each class uses as best tool to MT Raid Boss.
    The fact that some knight acknowledge that they have gone maybe too far in the mitigation power is just a sign confirming that there is a problem.
  14. Gnomeland Augur

    I'll be honest: I was also motivated to argue with Warriors simply because of the double standard they showed in pet threads. Many of the arguments Warriors use to argue that they ought to be the one and only raid tanks - and that Knights can go find their own role, instead of competing with Warriors - could just as well be applied to Mages and Necromancers arguing that moloing is their classes' "carrot" and what makes up for being worse than Wizards, Rogues, Berserkers, Warriors, Clerics, etc. on raids, and so Mages and Necromancers ought to out molo other classes.

    Yet, they don't realize that. Instead they think that being the only valid choice for main raid tank is their right, *and* that no class should be able to molo anything except for old content, simply because Warriors can't do it - which is actually false, but most of them have grown so used to getting groups upon asking for it that they don't even try to molo. Thus they make arguments such as "Mages are DPS. Other DPS classes such as Rogues can't molo. So why should Mages be able to molo? Take your role and be happy." Forgetting, of course, that were we to apply that argument to Warriors, then there is no logic to why Warriors should be the only main tanks on raids.

    In any case, between this and several Warriors using class descriptions and tradition - the same arguments they dismiss when it comes to Mages and Necromancers - to argue for why they ought to always out tank Knights, I could no longer stand the double standard, and thus had to respond.
    Drayze and Igniz like this.
  15. Igniz Augur

    As a matter of fact, I am playing a cute little Shadow Knight as a twink, though not often as a raider. I don't claim intimate knowledge about the intricacies of raid tanking, however, disc stacking and survivability min maxing is not exactly rocket science.

    I won't pick up your argument about "not playing a certain class" and "obvious lack of what each class uses as best tools for (insert random situation here) and the aweful vocality of some people often displayed in this and other threads. I think, by now, it is not neccessary anymore.
  16. Gnomeland Augur

    I can find two Warrior whine threads for every Shadow Knight whine thread in the last year.

    Examples -

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/brace-for-impact-changed.226796/

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/fix-warrior-class-please.225076/

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/february-2016-patch-preview.230574/

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...n-the-time-locked-progression-servers.226675/

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-in-the-next-patch.230690/page-2#post-3397802

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...rance-for-my-warrior-after-raid-death.230355/

    Add to this the fact that a Warrior intentionally got all three pet classes nerfed in 2014 by going on a one man crusade against pets, and you see why it's absurd to argue that any other class has as much of a whine print on the forums as Warriors.
    Silv, Vrinda, Drayze and 1 other person like this.
  17. Mayfaire Augur


    Hey, to be fair, I was all over this thread defending mages and saying y'all needed to be fixed. So, not ALL warriors were doing that. :rolleyes:

    I also have posted before that SK's need some love, and that I pretty much hate all nerfs. So, there you go. lol
    Sancus, Drayze, Leex and 1 other person like this.
  18. Igniz Augur

    I didn't say "everyone" and I really am thankful for your support :)

    But you will understand, that the majority of your class colleagues, like Makavien or p2aa here make it quite difficult to have sympathy for warriors. Especially as you guys at least don't get a nerf, but are just not given a boost.
  19. Mayfaire Augur


    Well, I am almost afraid to post this, because it seems like happy players = soon-to-be-nerfed players, but I am extraordinarily happy about where warriors are at right now. We can finally do a smidgen of dps, we have many great defense options, etc. I have zero complaints - well, except I wish they would restore Warlord's Grasp so we can position mobs easier, and give us a better endurance regen. That's it, and I can live w/o those two without much of an issue.

    Rather than constantly nerfing classes, I wish they would boost classes. It would mean a much happier player population, imo.
    Viltaire, Drayze and Igniz like this.
  20. Danille Augur

    grumble - this is the worst high-jacked thead in EQ history. Go make a tank thread please!
    Spellfire, Mayfaire and Sancus like this.