will getting lower level groups be hard on phinny in the near future?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Evertrek, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Sinestre Journeyman

    I'll stick it out until it no longer becomes fun. I have a Necro at 50 so it's not like I can't enjoy raid content in between leveling my alt, I do worry about the people who don't have this option though, I'd be legitimately frustrated. Leveling for a few hours last night in Unrest was pretty good, duo with a bard and a druid outside the group hitting us with level 50 buffs, we did 6 levels yesterday but I didn't keep a timer. So now my cleric sits at 19, I'm on her currently been in the LFG queue for about 30 minutes. I sent some tells to other people who were LFG to start something up but everyone wants to join pre-made groups already. :( Whatevs, I'll grind more levels with the druid later, I just actually like to be social while I'm getting my exp. I knew I should have started this toon during double exp!
    MamaBear likes this.
  2. Ultrazen Augur

    I missed the opening of Phinny and have been behind the curve. As a result, my character there has fallen farther and farther behind, to the point where I've stopped playing it. The last 5 times I logged on I failed to be able to get or start a group in about an hour or so.

    If you miss that first week or 2 of opening or a new expansion it becomes pretty tough. It's especially tough on Phinny I think given the boxing stuff and exp gains. I'm not sure how keen people are going to be at rolling multiple alts on this server.

    /shrug. I ended up going back to LJ where I can at least 2 box.
    MamaBear and Zublak like this.
  3. Until We Felt Red Augur

    Try finding a group on RF/LJ right now. Now imagine that with 1/3 the experience rate on Phinny and no ability to box. Yes, leveling groups will be dead VERY soon on Phinny.
    Sheex likes this.
  4. Your_Ad_Here Augur


    I 2 box just fine on Phinny with my pc and a laptop.

    And I'm quite behind and I've played since opening. Sad to see so many people see this server as some sort of race. Hope you enjoy your time on LJ!
  5. Ultrazen Augur


    Yah, I can't be bothered setting up 2 comps to play a 16 year old video game, it's just not that important lol. I find the whole *well...you can box if you make it really inconvenient for yourself* thing to be really tiresome. I get why they did it, and I'm glad there is a server without so many boxes on it, it just makes it really difficult when you can't get a group and want to try and still get somewhere. Oh well, there is always test server lol.

    I'd *much* rather be grouping, as boxing is...really boring, and kind of pointless to me. I do enjoy EQ, but I enjoy it about 100000x more when I'm in a good group. I also really love Classic, Kunark, and Velious...to me, that will always be EQ. The game was never the same once Luclin hit, at least for me. I was actually really excited to try and re-live EQ and maybe do a few things I didn't on the original release. I keep popping on Phin once in a while to try, but the result seems to be the same.

    Eh, I'll try to catch it when Kunark opens maybe, if there are still enough people around to roll lizards.
  6. TLP Addict Augur

    Ran along the beach in South Ro a couple of hours ago and didn't see a single croc killing group on the beach, admittedly it's odd hours, but 2 weeks ago there would have been at least 2 or 3 groups killing crocs even at that hour.
  7. FurySoul Augur

    2 weeks ago you had winter break and many on vacation...
    Add that to your odd hours and hopefully you can figure out why this seems like poor perception.
  8. Pretarius New Member

    It already is harder. The last 3 days in a row, I have had to solo my wizard because cannot create or find a group. And the server isn't even a month old yet.

    Most of the players rushed to get to raid levels and are now raiding (which is great for them). For the rest, head back to RF or LJ if you like TLP servers, otherwise go Live or go to other games. The next 2 months on this server prior to Kunark will be races for who's guild is better than the other guild.

    If you are a casual player and don't mind grinding solo most of the time, you'll be fine. If, however, you enjoy grouping over soloing, it will be a rough time for you.

    Just my thoughts on the matter.
  9. EradzEQ Elder

    Its getting thinner but I mainly see people PLing or Twinks. Mid day,off prime hours its almost nothing but oasis was kicking good enough for a few groups lastnight.
  10. TarewMarrForever Augur

    It always amazes me that people don't realize that most people (as in > 50%) people who *want* to play can't play for 2 hours uninterrupted, much less 4. They also cannot play more than 15-20 per week. So many of these people don't play *at all* when they do not have a nostalgia server that fits their needs.

    The TLP nostalgia surge, quite accidentally, blew up an became all about bringing back FORMER veterans from 10+ years ago. These 30/40 somethings all have *real* jobs now. Kids. Sports. Dance recitals . PTA. Scouts. School Board. Take your pick. They're busy.

    Sure, when they were 18-22, they fit EQ well for what EQ was *at that time*. But these people evolved, and so did the game.

    In short, they want to raid like they used to be able to, but without having to poopsock or put in > 20 hours per week. They can do that in other MMOs...

    It is that simple, and by not catering to them, DBG is missing out on revenue. Without a doubt.

    Now to the point: yes low level groups are already starting to be difficult to find on Phinny. But if XP rate was increased permanently to RF/LJ rates, this problem would disappear instantly with the influx of new players creating new toons (not to mention all of the new alts). Furthermore, while some of these new toons would be sacrificial from RF/LJ, a lot of them would be players who *are not playing otherwise* because they outright refused the box-a-rama world of RF/LJ.

    BOTTOM LINE: Fast XP hurts *nobody* in an instanced server where there's more than enough to go around. On the other hand, slow XP *unnecessarily* hurts population, which in the long-term will be bad for any server (and is already bad for this server, as many people aren't doing alts like they did on RF/LJ, which is another factor leading to this vacuum).

    Also as another has mentioned, the alts aren't grouping. They are being PL'd. Why? Because the XP grind sucks so much. Once was enough.

    It was good for getting groups in the first generation of toons, but it will KILL the second generation. We're already seeing it happen.

    Hopefully XP pots sales will fall off soon so that we can get the XP rate adjusted. Not to make leveling faster per se, but to get more players on the server (including those that aren't active players on any server). I also think more alts will be created and grouped if they can be levelled up in half the time.
    MamaBear and EradzEQ like this.
  11. MamaBear Elder

    [IMG]
  12. Lucy Elder

    It's impossible to start a rogue for example and level it up. So far, we've been fortunate enough to have double xp periods and people have been starting new toons. But good luck now with this horrible xp. Don't believe me? Start one today.
  13. Venthos Augur


    All of us "realize" this is the case for the folks championing Fast XP. The issue is that most of us are completely okay with this. We do not have any delusion that a TLP server is meant to or even should cater to 99% of those who want to play on it.

    Like you've stated, EQ has always been a socker's game (if end game was your goal). This doesn't mean casual can't or didn't enjoy it in the past, but socker's have always been at the forefront of "in era" raiding, higher leveled characters, better gear, etc. To claim nostalgia but want to white wash it EQ becomes a guided tour just seems self-deprecating. That's way different than what a TLP is and has been advertised. It has never been advertised as a guided tour that lets everyone re-live the game the way they want to re-live it.

    It is okay that not everyone will get to raid "in era" or have an easy time leveling. It really is. This is actually a problem that the "Family Guilds" sorted out back in the day. Make friends, level with friends, start multi-guild raids since individually none of them could pull force to do it. They had a blast even if they weren't at the forefront of raiding. Back in 1999, they were the 30-somethings with responsibilities. That's how EQ supports the hour-a-day players.

    To me, it seems wacky that you are citing you want to have the socker experience with an hour a day put into the game. That's not EQ. That's never been EQ. You can still absolutely enjoy your time at 1 hour a day, just as you could back from 1999 onward on live. But just like back then, you probably can't be at the forefront of raiding/content.
  14. Lucy Elder

    Dude, you can do that on Live. There's a reason people want to play on TLP's. This horrible xp will discourage new players. Go ahead, roll a rogue today and tell us how you do. Give us the name of the rogue so we can follow your failure.
    MamaBear likes this.
  15. Venthos Augur

    What can I "do on live"? Why are you talking about rogues? We're discussing XP Rate and Phinigel as a whole, not debating the merits or hardships of particular classes. You're passionately going on about something, but it seems to have veered from the topic.
  16. MamaBear Elder

    I haven't heard a single person say "I want faster xp so I can raid!" Or if they said that, I missed it and I apologize. It's just not fun to grind your off for 2 hours and get maybe 2-3 yellows. (If that.)

    Even if suddenly the unwashed masses got what they wanted and got faster xp and wanted to raid, how does that impact players with your opinion Venthos? Phinny is instanced. (Well kinda, sorta, they will eventually work out the kinks, nod. yes.) So why does that bother you? Why tear people down instead of giving everyone helping hand up?
  17. TarewMarrForever Augur

    It's not about the raiding in era. Yeah I hear that argument a lot, because people thought (rightfully so) that they would be able to raid content in era with 15 hours/week. And in fact many will be able to, thanks to the unprecedented 2x xp (which is DBG's way of admitting they were *wrong*).

    My points are relevant to the topic at hand: low level grouping and long-term viability of the server. Sure we all know about in-era raiding, but that immeidiate result has been talked about to death. But this aspect of DBG's poor decision hasn't been nearly as discussed. It is a tertiary affect, and not nearly as obvious.

    My primary point is there are people who are not playing the game *at all*, who could, and should be. They wouldn't do the grind even *once*. Sure, some wouldn't becuase they couldn't in-era raid. Many posted here no the forums as such. More wouldn't do it because they simply want to see progress, SOME kind of progress, and bailed even before 2x XP hit.

    Whatever the reason, this means fewer players at all levels but especially the low to mid levels (a full month in), because these "extreme casuals" would have leveled slowly by definition, but due to the artificially low XP rate, they would level TOO SLOW to be having any kind of fun. So they didn't play at all. Which sucks. It's bad for *everyone*.

    My secondary point is that there are people who are playing only ONE toon, because grinding one sucks, and aren't signing up for two or more. Case in point: I played 3 to 50 on RF on 2 accounts, will only do 1 here on Phinny on each account.

    This also has a large negative affect on the long-term health of the server because while it takes LONGER for the server to become top-heavy, once it is top-heavy, there are FAR less alts to allow people to group up without. It becomes very PL-focused for alts (even moreso than normal), which is bad. In the end, the server designed to promote grouping can ONLY do so for about the first month of it's life of each expansion. The other 66% of the time, go pound salt if you are behind the wave. This further puts pressure against play by casuals who know they'll be behind that wave...

    So it's not about what EQ is or was or raiding in era or not. The fact is, despite the slow XP, Phinny is nowhere near as Top-Heay as RF was at this point, yet amazingly it is hard to find groups at low levels, unlike RF, because on RF people were levelling up their second or third alt at this point. While that is true here in Phinny, it is to a much smaller degree.

    Combine this with the fact that we have raid instancing (sort of), and now the 50's have MORE to do than they did on RF/LJ. This adds further pressure against creating an alt. There's less incentive not only due to the slow XP, but also due to the fact that there's more stuff to do at 50 (and less competition to get a win). This will be true in Kunark. And SoV. And Luclin. It won't go away.

    When I look around, it seems to me that the majority of alts being created are Clerics, Monks, and Wizards, and they aren't grouping *at all* for the first 20 levels. They are being PLd to 20 in 4-8 hours under 1-2 pot burns. No bueno.

    I like Phinny. A lot. I haven't played on RF since it came out. I can't afford to with the time available to invest. But I'm ok with that. I really am. But it's a real shame that we don't have those ~100 (my estimate) or so other players that *would* have stayed with Phinny if the XP rate was reasonable, but now are playing *no* EQ instead. We *could* have had those players without doing *any* substantial harm to the server.

    If we had those 100 players, plus twice as many alts, how would that be bad for the server? Sure you can always dream up some negatives, but IMO the positives of this would *FAR* outweigh them...
    MamaBear likes this.
  18. EradzEQ Elder

    TarewMarr,

    None of that crazy common sense talk on these forums!
  19. Bobbydomino Elder


    Fast experience does hurt people actually learning to play their class and meet people in the game.

    But yeah.. as I've stated a few times the exp is fine for one character but really doesn't make me want to level alts. So I've been going to raids and not playing much during the day. I'm not spending 8 hours to level another character from 49 to 50 at single exp rate, on top of raiding daily.
  20. bodes Augur

    Group XP is 2.16x as fast as solo xp, becuase phinigel uses the live group xp bonuses. A person xping in a group with an adventure pot levels 2.5x as fast as someone soloing and not buying xp potions even with a GOOD soloing class. With a poor soloing class it's over 3x slower.

    This is the critical issue of phinigel: the xp rate IS tolerable when you quickly find a full balanced group and start grinding. This was the experience of virtually everyone who is 50 today. The people who are not 50, particularly those just starting out now, are going to be operating in smaller groups with less group-bonus xp and non-optimal class makeup. Their perceived xp rate is going to be much lower than what everyone who already did it experienced and that will absolutely hurt the population.
    Bobbydomino likes this.