Rotation Discussion Agenda 8/7/15

because you are delusional. There are tons of situations that require cooperation. Not one of them require both sides of the table to be pals. Dojii none of us want you or your guild as "pals" or even want to get along with you till you see reason. what we DO want is a working rotation that is supported by the majority voice of raiding guilds and some type of input from guilds that plan to be raiding.

You must work at Burger King. Because you love using this horrible analogy.

I dont understand the Burger King reference. Are you equating raid loots to toy prizes? Or are the raid mobs greasy and akin to microwaved hamburger?

Trying to shift the focus. It isn't working.

Us, waiting patiently for this to be answered.

Let me say that I don't have a horse in this race at all so, I am a completely neutral party. That being said, I have a few observations and suggestions just based on previous experience with EQ rotations.

Who can vote.
What margin can carry a vote?
Who should the gatekeeper be?
When are new guilds added to the rotation?
How is a guild removed from the rotation?
How are trades conducted?
How long if at all should the kunark FFA period be?

These are, IMHO, some great items to discuss. I don't think they should be limited to just Classic and Kunark though. I believe we should set rotation rules with all non-instanced raid content in mind. Here are my additional (and expanded) suggestions for discussion and rotation rules.

1. All guilds interested in joining the discussion and voting should be allowed to with no more than 2 representatives from each guild and only 1 of those reps being granted voting power by their guild leader ( provided that the guild leader is unable to attend ). If there are multiple leaders in a guild they must choose no more than 2 representatives. Names of both approved representatives should be announced/posted by their guild leader no less than 24 hours before scheduled discussion time.

2. Server-wide or multi-guild discussion is not a dictatorship. No single guild should have veto power that affects an entire server. Veto power should be reserved for DBG. Things that affect more than just one group or guild need to be decided by a clear majority ( 51%+ ) vote. All votes should be worded as yes or no / A or B with no three or more choice options to avoid confusion. If no clear majority is reached, discussion resumes but is limited to the 2 options previously voted on.

2a. NO approved representative may be removed from the discussions just because they disagree with someone as long as there is no name calling or other inappropriate language used. Anyone caught abusing others in the discussions, either by word or action, should be permanently removed from the discussions. Anyone exhibiting a "my way or the highway" attitude should be removed from discussions.

2b. Keep in mind that more guilds are affected by these decisions than just the current set of top raiding guilds. Other guilds will be wanting to join these rotations as time goes on. These decisions will have a larger affect over time.

3. Each item should be discussed in a civil matter before it's voted on. Civil discussion is required in order to narrow down voting choices for a simple yes or no vote between 2 choices.

4. BEFORE removal from rotation is discussed, a decision needs to be made about whether each mob is on a separate rotation as this will have a huge bearing on the discussion about removing guilds from the rotation. Due to power levels of the various guilds, some guilds may only be able to kill certain raid mobs until they're able to gear up better for the next challenge.

IMHO, those guilds should not be penalized just because they haven't had the time and/or opportunity to gear up for bigger mobs due to raid numbers or varied class makeup preventing them from winning the pure DPS race. Lower numbers and/or a different workable strat shouldn't mean that they should be barred from progressing just because they still need to gear up with the "lesser" raid mobs. Please keep that in mind.

5. Should guilds politely remove themselves from rotations to make room for other guilds once they're geared up?

5a. Should guilds be allowed to remain in rotations just to sell loot rights?

6. Any rotation guild caught splintering their guild just to get more shots at a rotation mob for main and/or alt gear should have main and all splinter guilds removed from rotation

7. ANY guild caught killing trigger or component mobs to prevent another guild's progression should be removed from all rotations ( if applicable ) and be reported to DBG for possible suspension/banning.

8. What considerations, if any, should be made for triggered epic mobs?

Behaving like a community doesn't require that you like each other or agree with each other all the time. It only requires that you be willing to be civil to and considerate of the entire population rather than just yourself and/or your guild and that decisions that affect the community as a whole, such as raid rotations and server-wide civility, take that into account.

Dojii, no offense man. But as an outside person looking in from LJ - it's quite obvious you need a neutral third party to moderate things.

You may not feel like you were oozing bias in how you were trying to moderate here in the logs presented, but it is very obvious to an outside perspective. Even just with how the itinerary was set up alone even says that to a substantive degree.

I'll admit that I think rotations are a half- solution to the content issue and personally I think the "Paperwork-Quest" aspect is really obnoxious in a number of ways - but if you want to do it RIGHT - you're clearly going to need someone with no vested interest helping the conversation along. (Or the rare person that can put themselves aside for the best interest of the server as a whole)

I don't know how you're going to find that person - but until you find that person and are willing to take a step back from the control you seem to insist you NEED in these discussions, they're doomed to fail again and again.

Period.

[And if anyone asks me, I'm sure plenty would consider me biased towards/against a number of random RF people - plus I really don't care to bother since it's in my best interest that rotations fail over there forcing a solution I consider better for my own interests - so more simply... No... I do have plenty of experience in mediation, but I'd be a bad choice for this case]

Since these threads are turning into non-constructive personal attacks, I'm going to go ahead and close them down.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Longdale, Holly <hlongdale@daybreakgames.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:31 PM
Subject: Ragefire Rotation
To: "Longdale, Holly" <hlongdale@daybreakgames.com>


I hope this doesn’t read like a form letter, but I’m sending an email to the folks who have been sending me information, questions, and comments on the Ragefire rotation.

As I said to a few people based on a new proposal that came up last week, that we would take a look at it. I certainly didn’t intend to give an impression that Dev would issue a Holy Hand Grenade to bless any kind of proposal. If that’s how it came across, I’m sorry.

It appears to us as though the guilds are working together, discussing and compromising. Looking at threads like the one here, it appears that guilds ARE working towards compromises and a rotation that works for everyone: http://www.ragefireforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=341

We feel in time you will all come to a resolution that works on Ragefire. Please keep working together and PM Roshen on the forums when you have posted a plan you all agree on and he will sticky it.

I hope you all see our point of view. We really feel that this isn’t an area that Dev should be involved in because no matter what happens, it isn’t us who will be managing how you play or getting involved unless a guild breaks the rules you all agree on. You all have to live with it as a community.

I really admire everyone for their passionate involvement and representing the players on Ragefire who so passionately tackle these concerns.

Sincerely,

Holly Longdale

The more you post the more obvious it becomes that you're miserably out of touch. Please continue to childishly insist that a single guild having veto power over any change made to the rotation is good for the server.

After tomorrow it won't matter really. If Dojii doesn't want to work with the rest of the guilds and affect change for the better of the server as a whole, the rest of the server will move on without him.

This has been posted in a few places.

As awesome as it is creating new threads the say the same thing as existing threads.. I'm going to go ahead and close this and ask you to check out the forum guidelines.