See Rpoo's post I believe we do, its called Crippling aurora and is an AOE cripple spell. or at least i have that on my 105 enchanter that has ~12k AAs (I'm lazy as heck and no reason to get the last 1.5k) Because a 70 % AA slow when the best slow in game is 73% yields no improvements? specialty when nigh all mobs mitigate slows at 75+% in the today's game. AOE slow is shm realm. they gotta balance the classes some how. Enchanters have the better cripple line, Shm have the better slow lines.
You realize that spam casting an instant cast/reset AA (Stasis) to proc a debuff on unmezzable mobs that was intended only for mezzable mobs was a bug/sploit right? The fact that it existed for 10 years doesn't make that any less true. Don't act like you had no idea. This is a bug fix/upgrade to Deep Sleep. It used to be a random proc. Now it is a guaranteed proc. Seriously... how are people complaining about this? Who cares if their logic is to 'incentivize cripple' (which I'm fairly certain is not the reason). Dzarn also said it would proc from our Slow [Helix] line. There is seriously 0 negative about what is happening aside from the fact we're out a debuff till the next patch. Initial nerf = yes, deserved complaining and some compensation due to 10 years of idiot proof accuracy debuffing any and all mobs Post-nerf solution = awesome. ANYONE that thought this wasn't on the list after the crystal, haze, and other [classes] AA-sploit nerfs the past few months is in denial.
Please give chanters a cripple only upgrade in TDS. As Silv has stated, the cripple/slow is useless when shammys are around.
While I *completely* agree we should have or should [in the next whatever] get an upgrade, now that deep sleep will 100% proc with it... that's a pretty epic debuff.On demand (without the fee!). And again I'll say, we all knew -at least in the back of our minds- that the Stasis/Deep Sleep proc was completely broken. I'm fairly confident in saying the change was actually to address several other OP'd bugs with different classes, or at least to lay the ground work for them. The fact they are 'giving it back' to us suggests that they aren't 100% clueless. We've been Deep Sleeping mobs we weren't intended to for almost 10 years. To completely remove that would likely have some impact since tuning usually revolves around the assumption that mob XYZ will have debuffs ABC. Obviously others feel differently but I would much rather have to re-cast Cripple every few minutes to proc DS instead of spamming a broken AA.
Thanks, I realized I'd pasted in the wrong one about an hour after I posted it, I had two pages of notes and used that one again. However, the overall point remains the same: Demolished Consciousness ENC / 96 AA Dreary Deeds 70% slow 16 to Disease Counter 1: Decrease DEX by 264, 277, 291 2: Decrease AGI by 264, 277, 291 3: Decrease STR by 264, 277, 291 4: Decrease AC by 109, 114, 120 5: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 15, 16, 17% Undermining Helix ENC 103, DURATION: 5 minutes 1: Increase Disease Counter by 24 2: Decrease Attack Speed by 70% 3: Decrease STR by 307,322. 338 4: Decrease AC by 126, 132, 339 5: Decrease DEX by 307, 322, 338 6: Decrease AGI by 307, 322, 338 7: Decrease Dual Wield by 17%, 18% 19% Our slow still is better than our AA Slow plus Cripple (Demolished Consciousness 96), and Slow is still the clear winner with 18 more to Disease Counter; much higher RK I than the highest RK III, and DW is progressively better. So why don't we have a Cripple spell that is at least as good as the Slow that gets overwritten by Shamans, if the developers think that our Slow AA plus Cripple is the most desirable combination?
I posted that before seeing the Name change and Deep Sleep on Cripple for August post. The belt is inferior, but why should melee get a Cripple proc at all? It's another Enc ability farmed out again when we don't even get upgrades even as an "incentivization." Screwed? Yeah, or maybe just screwed around with would be more accurate. Our ADPS was impacted with the Gift of Hazy Thoughts changes. Make us an ADPS class with "incentives" like Chromatic spells were to "encourage" us to group rather than solo. Then we get a Deep Sleep nerf, and I consider it a nerf until the update that "fixes" the problem with the addition of casting another spell. So why put it on Cripple at all? Why not just let it proc off AA Mez? Is it an exploit that it procs off Beam of Slumber? If not, then what's the difference? If it was an exploit in that it wasn't supposed to land on anything that wasn't mez'd, then okay, I get that. I don't get the exploit explanation other than it was just another button to use to get the same effect. It happened to be the highest aa mez we had, It made sense to use it, and hope it worked for what it was intended to do. I used Nightmare stasis largely for trying to land a Deep Sleep, but it was also a so-so mez to use in emergencies. So for the time being Deep Sleep does not proc Deep Sleep on a raid mob, which means what little damage mitigation we had to offer is stacked on top of our reduced ADPS.
Really? Where did you find that? There's Dreary Deeds Rk. II listed on Alla as 73% on the description, but it says No CLASS not ENC and the raw spell data also says 70% on Rk II. I'm not really good at the mechanics, but it looks like the only difference is that it lasts a little longer at a higher level. And..even if it is 73%, which I do agree is possible because it overwrites our higher level slow spells if cast afterwards, it's still overwritten by a Shaman 75%. It still doesn't stack up with Cripple to come close to what was given to us as appropriate for level 105 Slow with a Cripple component. So why not just give us an AA upgrade to Dreary Deeds to reflect the actual single slow we have to mem to cast, or a Cripple spell (or AA) that reflects that upgrade?
That's the thing though. How was it broken? tThe proc off an AA Mez or the fact that it proc'd on mobs that weren't mezzable? Why make it a "We took this away, but next month we'll give you the same thing back on another spell that you cast on unmezzable mobs, even though it's not really all that good. You can feel happy we broke one thing but we'll immediately fixed it by pasting that broken part and sticking it on this other spell that isn't even remotely related to Mez so you'll feel all warm and fuzzy and "incentivized enough to continue playing and casting that other spell too."
Slows don't stack even if there's no indication that they don't. Our slow spell or a shaman's won't stack with a Bard's slow even though both icons show. An AC debuff is always useful, but given the time it takes to go through and cripple each mez'd mob individually while doing other things I think that like you said earlier, it becomes a priority issue and there's likely to be other more pressing things to do. The AC debuff is important. It may not be as important as an AC buff on a tank, but when you think about the great lengths a melee player will go to get an augment with 10 or less AC the value becomes a little clearer. Btw, our AOE Cripple is not nearly as useful as the Shamans' and both are much lower level than the spell level cripples that the AA represent. Want to see something sort of funny? Cast the AOE Crippling Aurora (7 minute refresh) what you're really casting is Crippling Aurora Sparkle. Here's the description of CAS IV: 1: Decrease DEX by 25 (L1) to 129 (L105) 2: Decrease AGI by 46 (L1) to 150 (L105) 3: Decrease STR by 46 (L1) to 150 (L105) 4: Decrease AC by 35 (L1) to 66 (L105) 5: Decrease Dual Wield by 50% Seriously? Cripple is important but our AOE hasn't been upgraded to a higher rank, not even to our highest 96 Cripple?? We wouldn't even need another button for that. There's the AA I'd like some incentive to use.
I have the Aoe Cripple, but it's barely useful since with a seven minute refresh I can cast the actual spell fast enough on individuals. When I cast Cripple I focus on the highest dps mobs first. Our PBAOE Crippling Aurora casts: Crippling Aurora Sparkle. Isn't that too cute? Crippling Aurora Sparkle V 1: Decrease DEX by 25 (L1) to 129 (L105) 2: Decrease AGI by 46 (L1) to 150 (L105) 3: Decrease STR by 46 (L1) to 150 (L105) 4: Decrease AC by 35 (L1) to 66 (L105) 5: Decrease Dual Wield by 50% Here's the highest level (96) Cripple spell: Demolished Consciousness Rk. III 1: Decrease DEX by 291 2: Decrease AGI by 291 3: Decrease STR by 291 4: Decrease AC by 120 5: Decrease Dual Wield by 17% Wow. Great for when I want to decrease Dual Wield. Did Dual Wield ever get fixed? Or did we ever get any explanation of how that Decrease actually worked? 70% or 73% a Shaman slow will still overwrite it. Because Shaman slow over writes ours because of the higher 75% ATK speed reduction, we were given a better cripple. No longer "slowers' but cripplers. The problem is that when we cast our Slow spells we get a better cripple effect than we do with our AA slow (even if it's 73%) But wow. we get a new proc on our level 96 spell which wasn't upgraded to above 100 even though we got a 103 slow. Great for solo, charming or even groups with no shaman...but it doesn't address the issues of raid level mobs and raid debuffs. Shamans may have the better Slow, and we may have the better Cripple...but the Cripple that we do have hasn't been upgraded to the same level as our Slow..which isn't as good as the Shamans. You don't see a problem with that? And when was the last time you saw a group asking for a "crippler?"
Yeah, I know I did. Why didn't the developers explain it that way? Instead of a desire to "Incentivize?" Or Reduce Buttons? Or that Night Stasis (a mez AA) was an "exploit" of some kind? Or that our "go to" is to cast Cripple and the AA (and not even use the right name for the AA)? Even though in any situation where there is not a Shaman we would be using a superior combination in ONE spell, not a spell and an AA. We just finally have proof that they are out of touch with the class.
Thanks for the clarification. Oh yeah. That AC debuff is boss. But since I can only put it on one trash mob every 5 minutes, forgive me if I'm not impressed. I have a busy job. Tracking a 5m debuff that I can put on a mob that doesn't need it ... well, I'll do my best to remember, but I'm not crying if I miss it, nor is anyone else in the group. If I could put it on trash mobs routinely, then it would become a part of the rotation. If I could put it on boss mobs infrequently, it would become part of my boss routine. Right now, it's neither. Similar to the above, and something the devs should keep in mind - I use Crippling Aurora all the time. I recognize it's pretty worthless, but I tend to pull 5-10 mobs at a time. So it's easy enough to hit the button one time and catch them all. I would much rather have a Cripple worth thinking about, of course, but in the same way that Stasis is never going to make my rotation because of normal human behavior, Crippling Aurora gets used all the time. There's a lesson to be learned there by the devs. Now, if I have to mem a spell and dedicate a gem to it, it had better be worth it. I use the 96 cripple on bosses right now, but mostly because it lasts a little while. If you want to incentivize the use of Cripple, either make it worth a spell slot or make the AA powerful enough to have an actual impact. Or hey, here's a thought - tune mobs accordingly and even our crappy AA will have some impact. Might be one step to reducing mudflation.
Welcome to the boards, where even the most blatantly and ridiculously broken of abilities are met with vehement "Wuah!!!!" when they're changed in any way shape or form (even if there are positive effects). Remember swarming? There were enough tears to desalinate and solve the CA drought-crisis!
Alla hasn't had an Adequate spell parser in foreverz, I found it (it was also in the patch notes or beta forum for COTF, but thats off memory) Here: http://spells.eqresource.com/spells...=&level=1&range=greater&order=asc&source=live After mitigation The difference between the 2 Slows is less then 1%. Depending on the amount of mitigation it might even be less then .5% diffference. How long of a parse do you think would be necessary to show that Shaman slow is better then Enchanter slow? Just fancying a guess, It would be many hours. Hell I bet you'd have a hard time parsing a (meaningful) difference at all between AA slow + Spell Cripple and the Cripple + Slow spell.
The problem would be getting shaman to stop casting their stupid slow in lieu of the superior Enchanter Helix. Almost 16 years of dogma is hard to break and we also know that 90% of raiders don't listen so~
