Ragefire Rotation Discussion

On July 31, 2015, ten guilds were invited and participated in the following discussion regarding the new Ragefire rotation. The guilds that attended the discussion were as follows:

- Twisted Legacy
- Apokalypsis
- Reign of Eternity
- Rosengard
- The Last Guardian
- False Prophecy
- Ceaseless
- Canadian Armed Forces
- Remnants of Prexus
- Darkwind

Thalanos was a third party that participated in the conversation, he is looking to rebuild whatever remained from the RoI guild after the transfers.

The Conversation Log - http://pastebin.com/hgTWZ1vz

New Rules Proposed - http://www.ragefireforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=341

Updated Rotation Spreadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...kNRODFMWC1uQXdqUFhzNHgteXc&usp=sharing#gid=13

Rotation Rules

The raid mobs presently agreed to be on the rotation are as follows:

• Cazic Thule
• Innoruuk
• Lord Nagafen
• Lady Vox

Each guild has the ability to choose their time slot in the rotation, the approved time slots are 12:00 PM (Noon) EST – 6 PM EST aka "Prime-Time A" and 6PM EST – 12:00 (Midnight) AM EST aka "Prime-Time B". You can choose one or the other, or both. There is no penalty for choosing both time slots, but those who do become responsible for killing the targets in each. If any of the mobs listed above spawn between Midnight EST to Noon EST, it will be free for all. If killed, it does not impact any guilds spot in the rotation. These two windows were designed to help the European guilds and the American guilds raid during prime time.

If the mob spawns in your specified time slot, you have three hours to kill it before it passes to the next guild in the rotation. More specifically: If the raid mob spawns at 5:00 PM EST, "Prime-Time A" becomes extended until 8 PM EST (3 hours after spawn). This means that guilds in the "Prime-Time B" rotation must respect the extension of the window and "Prime-Time B" will then become 8 PM EST – 12 AM EST temporarily. The same rule applies for "Prime-Time B," their window will extend proportionally (pushing the FFA period back temporarily).

Guilds are not removed from the rotation unless either:

• They violate one of the rules, and there is sufficient evidence to support the violation.
• They are voted as inactive by 2/3 of the guilds on the raid rotation.

If removed from the rotation, you are eligible to reapply by killing the Gatekeeper listed below.

Any guilds added or re-added to the rotation will be placed at the end of the rotation listed on the spreadsheet.

In order to be added or re-added to the rotation you must show proof of death on the revamped Keeper of Souls. You do not have to give any form of notice, however if you would like to ensure your attempt is secured please provide 24 hour notice and all guilds will refrain from killing any raid mobs that may prevent you from gaining access to the Keeper of Souls.

The following guilds qualify for the rotation based on the above criteria:

Reign of Eternity
Apokalypsis
Twisted Legacy
Rosengard
The Last Guardian

Notes

1) No changes/alterations are permitted to the rotation unless otherwise agreed on by 51%+ of the guilds presently already on the rotation. The rules are only to be updated by Jain after an agreement has been reached by majority ruling of the guilds presently in the rotation.

2) All guild leaders have access to the spreadsheet containing the raid rotation; those guild leaders are able to pass that information off to other officers in the guild. Because we are able to track the progression of who edited the rotation, any guild caught editing/defacing the rotation spreadsheet will be removed from the rotation and forfeit any current slots they may have. If you do not have access to the rotation spreadsheet and you are a guild leader of a guild presently on the rotation, please contact Jain for verification and access. Each guild is responsible for updating the kill time of their own rotation kills.

3) So long as 22 hours have not passed since a rotated mobs previous death, guilds are permitted to pass their spot on the rotation to the next guild in line (the other guild must acknowledge this transfer otherwise the transfer is deemed void).

Before submitting to Holly for final review, we require the leadership of all the guilds that attended the discussion to create/verify accounts with Jain on the ragefire forums so they may sign off on the proposed rules agreed upon during the discussion. Only the Guild Leaders are permitted to sign off on the discussed proposal. (Refer to the link above to "sign off" the proposal).

Sincerely Skyp,
Guild Leader of Twisted Legacy

Man it seems to just complicate it more. All the specific times, extensions, mobs being FFA in the middle of the night(meaning you can literally be waiting for a while if spawns keep happening in that time).

Should of made Draco gatekeeper instead of Keeper ;P

Yea, we're probably going to want to find a new rotation channel it may have been accidentally leaked on the log.

Yes, spawns can be streaky, that goes both ways though.

The basic idea behind the time slots is that the guys who want to come home from work, have a shot at a dragon/god without being ran over, and then put the kids to bed, have equal rights on a mob that spawns when they're on. This applies to both Euro and North-American play-times. It recognizes that some guilds may be looking to expand or have larger raid forces - you have the choice of signing up for the other prime-time slot or going for FFA mobs. Further, mobs are up at off hours, competition is part of classic EQ, and some FFA is healthy in preventing splintering - so it shoved all of that to those time periods. Lastly, it recognizes that the whole - take months to get in, track for 20hrs straight, mobilize people at 5am, and get booted from rotation upon failure, is something not welcomed by the larger raiding community.

Draco is tougher, but I think people wanted something up frequently so as to not artificially limit the influx of guilds, and wanted something sufficiently removed from mobs other non-rotation guilds could kill and the PoF/PoH circus. KoS was a compromise.

Lastly, there were 10 guilds who showed up (thank you), the 8 that didn't have raid commitments pull them out were able to come to an agreement that people felt was fair and left room for every play-style. There were casual raiders defending box guilds, hardcore raiders defending casual, etc when it came to respecting people's game-play and interests. It was really cool to read it all TBH. I think people entered with open minds and that the server came away with a community inspired & approved rotation.

How did you get 10+ guilds to accept a proposal in which 50% of the spawns go to FFA, meaning they go to TL? This rotation stays the same for Twisted Legacy no matter how many guilds join it, and they always get over 50% of the kills. It is not reasonable. It as bad as the last one Skyp proposed and that was rejected by the community.

It's what the guilds wanted? Logs were posted. If that's what they agreed to then that's what they agreed to. Guess you can't please everyone.... Glad stuff got worked out between all the guilds.

At no point was this an agreement to change the rotation. Per your original post it was to discuss ONLY. More deception from TL.

This is slightly off-topic but was brought up in the previous posts. Respect shown is a nice thing, but box guilds are still the #1 problem on this TLP and maybe the likeliest cause of future population decline. Additionally, it may be fairly reasonable to expect that all of the off-hour competition will be dominated by said box guilds. The reason is that the average end-game medium-core raider who doesn't box still has to work in the morning but RMT'ers (i.e. boxers in box guilds) play the game for $$.

Your comment is gold. Funny how an officer of the guild that went behind every guild's back to do a backdoor rotation with RoE is talking about deception... LOL

Guilds got together and a MAJORITY decided on an outcome. Diplomacy~

The theory is that mobilizing in the wee hours sucks and few want to do it, even TL - remember most of the FFA they lost were such hours after all.

It's poorly written and convoluted. I am posting here to clarity for anyone reading this that Twisted Legacy will get 50% of all kills up front + their spot in the rotation. Twisted Legacy failed the first time and they are attempting to position themselves back into a very favorable position with this rotation. If 10 guilds join this rotation, then each guild that is not Twisted Legacy will get 1 in 20 Lady Vox kills, while Twisted Legacy will get 11 Lady Vox kills. That is 5% versus 55%... unsure how anyone could be talked into this, the log does not prove that people understood what they were casually agreeing to.

Did we reject your app at some time?

Side note, there was many breaks and many questions in regards to anything that was asked. Especially this rotation.

Do you reject any apps?

At least pre-apps, yes they do.

i think those changes are a major step up for everyone on ragefire,.
All raiding guilds arent playing 24/7, this draft offer a better chance to any capable guild to down raid targets.

Guilds can join the rotation easily, the gatekeeper is up 3 to 4 time a day.
The gatekeeper isnt so easy that it would let any guild to enter.

The timeslot rotation is a very fair way for everyone to actually "raid", guilds that want to raid 24/7 gets to raid 24/7, guilds that only play during set hours get to play during those hours.

we keep a healthy amount of FFA targets in-between, and no... TL wont get all the FFA targets.
i'm pretty sure Apok and Rosen are more than capable to compete against them.
Nothing prevents CAF/TLG/RoE/FP/Caeseless/DW/rosen ... or any other guild to team up during FFA hours to increase their chance of success.

If Apok or Rosen had been able to take FFA targets from Twisted Legacy we wouldn't need the rotation in the first place. This proposed rotation doesn't stop Toxn from teaming up with TL for all the FFA and keeping both guilds in the rotation. It's just such a raw deal for everyone but those two.

Glad to see a new consensus was agreed upon. Much less hostile environment in the logs than the forum warriors we've seen lately.

A few recommendations:

• Can the Excel sheet get the same formatting treatment that the other one did? The sheet is pretty hard to follow as is.
• I'd recommend adding a calculated field to the Excel sheet to display the current "Period" that we are in. For example, it should list "Primetime A," "Primetime B," or "FFA," for sake of clarity. I believe this uses some form of the NOW() function in Excel. Not all of us are in EST and constantly converting timezones is annoying.
• Gatekeepers, failed attempts, need to be listed.

Thanks!

So after reading over the logs of the pastebin, it appears that TL, Rosengard, The Last Guardian, False Prophecy, Ceaseless, Canadian Armed Forces, Remnants of Prexus, Darkwind and Thalanos speaking on behalf of rebuilding RoI agreeing to terms of the rotation that they would like while little to no input from Melveny and Dojii from Apokalypsis and Breeze from RoE. Apokalypsis kept avoiding agreeing to anything and demanding that this only be a "discussion" instead of any agreements to the rotation that no one agreed to outside of Apok/RoE from before. So, without adding Thalanos (Recreating RoI), you have 8 guilds in favor of the proposed changes here vs 2 guilds (Apok/RoE) that didn't want to participate or change their current proposal. Not sure what kind of "deception" you think this is Melveny but 80% > 20%. Glad to read that sides are open to more talks if they see stuff that needs to be changed but even more glad that majority of the guilds found a proposal that they all agreed upon.

The logs do not make it clear that any of the guilds understood what they were agreeing to or if they knew what kind of rotation was currently being enforced by Daybreak. For an attempt at transparency this fell flat. It happened without open discussion and included the passing of information not included in that chat log (They all agree to things that were not present in the chat log).