Holly quote.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Symbius, Jun 30, 2015.

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  1. rekais910 Augur

    Exactly. The problem isn't that casuals are asking for free loot they want to get away from the problems that were already existing in the raid competition scene (which most refer to as toxic at this point) and were only exacerbated by the removal of PnP and nearly complete removal of GM's from the server. PLAYERS are asking to be given a chance to enjoy the content without having to subject themselves to a competition that is considered to be toxic. Not just casuals, but players and probably portions of the hard core raiding guilds as well. Fippy has shown us what it will become and things on this server are going to be even worse.
  2. TL_KRONOLORD Augur


    Looks to me like you're still playing.
  3. Rhiyannon Augur

    aha! i had wondered, i will confine myself to my proper place!

    joking aside, i am not even remotely interested in joining a group of people where being an to others is a required skill. i do put in my time to this game, i have spent 24 hours to lose out in a quested drop, i don''t see myself as casual. damn i miss pnp and gms...
  4. rekais910 Augur

    We all do. This server is turning into a mess fast and this comment being released by the devs just told the majority player base that they aren't deserving of consideration no matter how long they play if they don't want to deal with what they consider a toxic environment that the devs have incubated.
  5. EqEqEq Elder

    I'm sorry I can no longer support your company because you no longer support my play style - Working Gamer.





    Alienate Customers, Dishearten Employees, and Drive Your Business Into the Ground...

    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  6. Tintaglia Elder

    Which is sadly hilarious, seeing how most people posting in these various threads, regardless of opinion, have far more time involved with Everquest than she does.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Barton like this.
  7. Steampunk Augur

    Do you even know what the word "context" means? It doesn't sound like it.
  8. Elkay Augur

    Actually, I haven't logged in today. And I won't be. Or tomorrow. I just cancelled all my subs.

    I refuse to support such close-minded people. There are plenty of other games out there.
    Gumlakx and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  9. taliefer Augur


    im pretty sure he does, since holly wasnt taken at all out of context in regards to her casual quote. in fact she reinforced her sentiment.
  10. AngorfLadroTholuxeP Augur

    I put a lot of thought into this post so I hope you take the time to read it. I have posted countless times recently into my thoughts on raid instancing, and why it should be implemented in some form on the TLP servers.

    It's just my own personal opinion/advice when I say you shouldn't use the word "casual" when describing the players of this community, let alone gamers as a whole. Since I will not refer to them as "casuals," I will refer to them below as the "majority".

    Now, putting that aside, I would disagree with you that the majority of the content, (and especially on this progression server,) is geared towards the "majority" of the players. The majority of top-level content, especially before AAs are implemented, consists of raiding. There's not much else to do at level 50 besides start again. Combine that with the dramatically reduced time to reach max level, add the non-classic "QoL improvements" that remove previously necessary time constraints, and then add that to the most crowded EverQuest server of all time, and you will understand why so many do not share your views on the subject.

    Many people in the community were raiders in the past, and would be willing to dedicate the time to being a top-end raider again. The problem is that many just don't want to do it as a part of this community itself. This is just a short list of some of the concerns that I have that I fear will remain or become true if we do not see some form of raid instancing:
    1. This is a Progression based server, so it makes sense that many people would come here to experience said "Progression." I raided top-end in a few eras early on, and back then, there simply was not as much interest in the raids as there is now. People weren't high enough, they didn't know the world, they might not have even known that Phinny existed. It's simple supply vs demand. Right now there is a high demand for raid targets, but not nearly enough supply.
    2. The removal of the PNP encourages toxic behavior on raids. A lot of this behavior was simply not tolerated in the past (whether through GM intervention or server blacklisting.) Many players are simply left powerless in this.
    3. Any contention of raid bosses in this game seems to result in either some form of griefing or being griefed. We have seen countless posts of this over the past years in TLP servers, and RageFire seems to be the worst example of this yet.
    4. One major reason that the original EverQuest game did not feature Instancing, was because the technology did not exist at the time. Similarly, just because something was done one way, doesn't remain it should remain the same way. Don't fix what isn't broken, but when the majority of your subscribers are complaining, there is a good chance that something might actually be broken. Sure, you can't keep everyone happy, but when 30% of the posts on the front page have to be locked because they are getting out of control, maybe there is actually a real problem that needs to be addressed.
    5. Instancing content actually encourages competition in PvE games. It is typically a PvP crowd that is interested in mixing raid and PvP elements, but this is a PvE server.
    6. Just because a raid boss is instanced, doesn't mean a guild that wouldn't normally be able to slay Nagafen can suddenly slay Nagafen. They would still need everything they needed before to kill Nagafen.
    7. Semi-related to the above in #5 where I claim that a guild that was not able to previously slay Nagafen would be able to slay Nagafen if he was instanced... I could actually see the opposite being true (as in a group that could previously kill Nagafen, is no longer capable of killing him). Under the current rules, the following situation is fully legal: A guild that is fully capable of beating Nagafen with a proper raid force of balanced classes that is doing all of the tanking and healing, ending up losing the fight due to "DPS War" rules , against a team of 72 ranged DPS who came and threw spells and pets on him.
    8. As raids and encounters grow in complexity, in addition to the introduction of epics with Kunark, many people are worried (and rightly so with the lack of PNP and DPS War rules) of ring/trigger event encounters. Under current server rules it is totally okay to interfere against a boss in a ring/trigger event encounter regardless of the circumstances.
    9. Numbers wise, this TLP server population is nothing like a classic server population. Not in regards to level distribution or otherwise. A large problem is number of available raid targets per active player in-game. When a server such as this, which is the most populous of all time, AND is in classic (so population is extremely dense,) the server is faced with the lowest number of available raid targets per active player ever. Especially if the difficulty increase to the boss encounters is sufficient, then the number of players with raid loots as a percentage of the server population should effectively be pretty similar to it was back in "Classic."
    10. As an effect of #9 above, low raid targets available to player will translate into less raid loot available per player, again looking at it as a percentage, and comparing it with a "Classic" server. As long as this server remains this crowded, there simply is not enough to go around. The only way that the number of loots available per player can be increased is either by A) Decreasing the population OR B) Introducing some form of raid instancing
    11. As it is defined now, "competition" is solely a numbers game, especially since DPS is king. The more players any guild is forced to bring, the less strategy you are actually using (because at that point it becomes a zerg). The more members a guild is required to bring to remain "competitive," the slower they will gear up, and the longer they will try to monopolize a spawn.
  11. Ceffener Augur


    Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

    Please explain how the context of the original quote has changed, based on a post reinforcing the original quote.
  12. Cidran Augur

    I find it funny. I remember one of the quotes from this Holly at Ragefire's launch, when everything was so chaotic, thanking all the people that weren't treating them "like a pair of old shoes" (or something like that) now look how she is talking about a huge proportion of the playerbase in such a despective manner... What "the casuals" want us to do..... We don't want "the casuals" doing this and that..... Hahahaha.

    It just looks so childish to me. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with her but damn, there are so many ways to communicate with your customers...
  13. Arya1 Lorekeeper

    Lol at the word "organized" really you shouldn't have said anything. Now it makes you look even worse than before.
    Massimo_Bertoxx likes this.
  14. Gregolo Augur

    It's hard to read poorly formatted concrete bricks. No matter how noble they were intended to read.
  15. Massimo_Bertoxx Augur


    It's been pretty apparent for years that they are clueless about their own game and why people play it.

    I'm constantly reminded of a conversation I had with a phone csr at soe a couple of years ago. Got whatever I called about resolved and got to talking about EQ. He started asking me questions about some things and I asked him if he had ever played. He'd played eq2 but not eq. Then went on to say that he didn't know any one at the company at that point who had actually played eq.

    Shocker.
    AngorfLadroTholuxeP likes this.
  16. chumbus Apprentice

    I'm just curious as to what organizational tips Holly can offer my guild, considering her comments today and the changes coming soon.

    We've already pretty much openly recruited anyone with a high level character and a pulse. Do you think we should just randomly invite any online characters to our raids?

    Should we start booting people that have the audacity to use the restroom while we wait for spawns? Should we ban Netflix or alt-tabbing? Should we call attendance every 10 minutes or so via voice? 5? Less? I'm trying to be as strategic as possible here.

    Would it make more sense for everyone to just give me their logins, so I can control them all at once?

    See, I'm just not sure what strategy and organization I'm clearly missing here.

    Hopefully by lengthening the spawn windows of bigger targets, people won't actually sit around waiting for them. I mean, they don't already do that now for exceedingly long periods of time, do they?
  17. Gregolo Augur


    But, she's not wrong.

    We're the most organized, we get the most kills.

    Questions?
  18. Banuvan Augur



    I find her language eerily similar to the rest of the TL PR crew here on the forums.
    sihpa and AngorfLadroTholuxeP like this.
  19. Massimo_Bertoxx Augur


    I know, right? I'm a marketing professional, used to be one in entertainment industry, and am a gamer of 35+ years. And this has to be the most epic PR F up I've ever seen anyone pull. Ever.

    The publicist who let Crispin Glover go out on stage in the mental condition he was in before he took a kick at Letterman's head got nothing on this chick.

    As to your point....There's nothing "organized" about guilding 400 people and getting them to show up and zerg a mob. That needs to be praised as any kind of an accomplishment, at least.
  20. RoamingBlue Journeyman

    I honestly doubt that they'll have any server overcrowding issues much longer.
    AngorfLadroTholuxeP and Elkay like this.
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