It isn't a matter of debate; a debate goes back and forth, with each person presenting information to further the conversation. When I post, I usually do it to question someones intent, or to flat out tell them they're wrong, then provide facts to support it if needed. I've done this multiple times in the past in game, and on the forums; the way in which I post is nothing new, or the medium I use this as. On the note of dps, I've seen the parses of many mages in "high end" guilds, and they're lacking, for whatever reason. It could be adps, their guild's set up, or themselves, but they're not achieving what I would consider proper dps levels for the class. This isn't meant as condescension in the least, just an opinion based on numbers. I spend each expansion telling people they're not getting the best out of the class, when they ask me about their numbers, and each expansion people say "So and so class is better off" until I post my numbers, which I've already done in several mediums. I would argue with the statement, "wizards generally will do more than magicians on the majority of current and previous expansion events". I could be the way I approach the event, the adps I get, or just better management of the class as a whole, but unless you're pulling the absolute best from the class, and facing someone at the best of their class (or close enough), you can't have the relevant data to make assumptions.
I have to disagree with this statement as well. I have currently 2 wizards out of 6 that will beat me on parse. I'm generally always top 3 on parse. If a Wizard isn't going 100% and a Mage is, with propper support you should beat the Wizard.
I am not here to argue. I gave an opinion, based off of my personal TDS raiding history. Obviously other magicians are doing better, and believe that they are doing equal (or better) than wizards. Cool. We run with around 4-5 wizards per TDS event. I can beat 1-2 of them consistently. That still means 3-4 are doing better than me. Just because I can beat 1-2 doesn't mean that magicians are doing more DPS than wizards. Maybe if I had full 100% support on each event then I can match some magicians on this thread. Maybe not. I am not the greatest magician of all time, I am not top 10. But I like to think I am solid at my class. Maybe I am wrong. Who knows. Only way is to put me against another magician where we both are in the same exact group- same support, same timers, same everything. Then we see. Until then, I am sticking by my opinion that on TDS raids, wizards are generally higher DPS than magicians. You can agree, you can disagree.
1. DPS, which one does more? I realize wizards were the undisputed masters of burst dps. But does it add up to the constant damage tang a magician can put out? I have no problem at all keeping up with Wiz DPS 2. Which class is going to be more sought after for groups? Mage , but Mage is also a group unto herself 3. Im not a big time solo guy but sometimes it's nice to have that option. Which one is better at this? Mage is one of the best class to solo 4. Raids. Which class is more preferred? Guilds like having both class Mage and Wiz I have a friend that is returning with me. He used to play a cleric back in the day, we were inseperable we actually became friends on EQ and are still friends to this day. Which is pretty amazing and a feat no other game afterwards has been able to replicate. So I will be duoing some with a necro. Which leads me to my final question. 5. Which would make better duo partner with a necro? Mage, I box this duo it is awesome anything with a Mage or Necro is a group but Mage/Necro is almost unstoppable ..2 pets= two tanks plus to very good dps class = win win Yimin
Okay, I can maybe believe some of the Triton wizards aren't maxing their DPS potential or more likely they're not minimizing their time between nukes but I have a hard time understanding a situation where the mages are also beating the necros. Glad to see all of us silk classes getting in the spotlight though.
Praetor Vitio Raid in Arx (Wizard) -vs- Praetor Vitio: -- DMG: 21767030 -- DPS: 160052 -- Scaled: 145114 -- DirDmg: 21760105 -- DoT: 6925 -- Non-crit rate: 10.2% -- crit rate: 89.8% -- Attempts: 187 -- Hits: 187 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 116401 -- Max hit: 343268 -- DMG to PC: 0 (Magician) -vs- Praetor Vitio: -- DMG: 15562070 -- DPS: 112769 -- Scaled: 103747 -- DirDmg: 15562070 -- Non-crit rate: 5% -- crit rate: 95% -- Attempts: 240 -- Hits: 240 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 64841 -- Max hit: 285095 -- DMG to PC: 159000
That really depends on the event. When we raid with 3 wizards and 1 magician, those 4 are typically the top 4 on the parse (except the AM5 berserker AE paradise ). In a straight burn (e.g. Vitio) post-haze-nerf, the regular parse looks like this: WIZ ~200k dps, MAG ~150k dps. The longer the event runs and the more adds it has, the smaller the difference becomes.
To be fair, the Mages did not have an Enchanter for that parse (and pet procs don't report to others' parses). That being said, two of the four Mages on the parse were higher than one of the three Wizards. Only thing I'll add is I'm very much looking forward to next weeks' Vitio
Ahh, but what you didn't tell them is how the Wizard group gets all the IoG's in raid!! That was only a couple raids to be fair!!..I think the biggest difference I see is between enchanters..I've noticed a few nuke more than others..Meaning more Haze. /g Praetor Vitio in 152s, 423644k @2787134 --- Ammeren + pets 25902k @176207 (6.11%) To me this is a horrible parse. My engage was completely off ( the tank didn't set the mob correctly at first and I didn't want to go full bore if they were moving it ) plus I didn't get a single Chromatic haze the entire fight. Generally my DPS is much higher for that fight. Normally post haze nerf my parse looks more like - /g Praetor Vitio in 131s, 360962k @2755435 --- Ammeren + pets 24205k @201707 (6.71%) pre nerf - /g Praetor Vitio in 107s, 448885k @4195189 --- Ammeren + pets 25299k @252991 (5.64%) And for AM5 I've taken #1 on the parse before, although our zerker is beast mode for sure..Sancus, we do have a few Necro's! As to the person talking about Triton Wizards, I'd love to see you parse vs them. I think Axxius would bring the hammer down
If you are not sustaining 90 to 110k dps you are probably not doing some right post nerf for the entire night of arx. Usually around the 110 to 120 s mark a wizard would be pushing 220 to 230k post nerf even IMO
I'm confused. You think that a sustained parse for a Wizard should be 220k - 230k DPS over an entire nights worth of raids? Would you provide a parse link?
The only real case of that currently is Vitio, and there it depends on a couple of randoms: emotes and sheer luck with enchanter procs. With favorable conditions, 220-230k dps for WIZ and 160-175k dps for MAG is what happens, indeed. With more average luck, I'm seeing ~200k WIZ and ~150k MAG.
Yeah I was confused, I didn't know you meant seconds haha...I thought you meant a Mage should be 110k dps over all for the night and Wizards should be 220-230k. 175k isn't favorable conditions for a Mage, 175k-200k+ would be. I did 176k with a delayed engage and no haze procs, so you can see how easy it would have been to push it higher if that situation didn't happen.
Of course we are talking about the whole fight. If I delay my engage until the last 5 seconds of the fight, my dps numbers will be quite amazing. Which is why we sort parses by the total damage and not dps.
If you delayed your engage until the last 5 seconds your DPS will be amazing but your overall will show you did nothing. That wasn't the case with me, it was about a 15-20 second delay after the first 2 nukes ( I thought they'd just drag him into position but that took longer then expected ) so my DPS dropped off a lot, and my total lost what it needed to hit #3, I was only like a nuke or two off from the #3 spot. Even with all that I did 176k, would have been 200k+ if we didn't have that hitch in the beginning, even without chrome haze .
