Raid Changes coming in July

I appreciate all the work you've guys been doing to make this server a success but this just seems to widely miss the mark.

You can't have a "classic" experience on a server with this much already changed. Mages, monks, bot armies. A single server with 4000 users. So why are you so stringent on this aspect? The people that came back to make this server a success are those of us who have been away for years and wanted to play EQ again. Most of us didn't come back for the raid drama. We came back because the core of EQ was fun, the open dungeons, world zones, the classes, the leveling experience. Raids were for many, a lot of BS drama, I did it all through PoP and don't really care to do it again. And currently on live all raids for the most part are instanced so why DB are you insisting on making such a horrible choice?

Leave things as they are (bosses in main instance only with tradeable drops), but add in expeditions that have no trade only loot and a 7-10 day lockout. That seems the most fair to the economy and to your older player base that has real world responsibilities. You'll keep a hell of a lot more subs this way, you may lose krono sales but isn't that worth keeping the $15 a month payments rolling in for the casual players?

I'm also curious here. While I wouldn't be against instancing since I'm kind of tired of doing 4 AM dragon kills, isn't the point of progression servers to relive the nostalgia of original EQ as much as can be? One of the defining characteristics of EQ was end game races, competition, guild rivalries, etc. Trying to turn EQ raiding into WoWmode doesn't really seem to be in line with reliving EQ's old days.

To them, the competition is not about anything skill based, but instead based around who can stare and watch paint dry the longest until it changes colors.

But in seriousness... by us asking for raid instancing or at least some intelligent game designs to fit the populace, this saves YOU hours of your life. It is one thing if you spent those hours - killing something, fighting monsters, etc. You don't... you just stand there and wait, for hours on end... It is like standing in line at an amusement park for a ride that you cannot see or here. And they let you sit in the seats for a few seconds and then you exit off on the other side. You don't even get a ride out of waiting all that long... You just stood in line for the sake of standing in line.

We are trying to save you guys from your own mental degradation, please... we can get you help

To paraphrase what was said in another thread.

"If i go to a restaurant and ask for a steak, I wont be happy no matter how many salads you bring me."

We asked for raid instancing, because none of the proposed "solutions" that DBG has come up with are any solutions at all.

Raid instancing is the steak, and the proposed solutions are the ¤%#&¤ salads they try to push down our throats. Whatever, Im not eating it.

See that may have been your experience back then but it sure wasnt mine on ARo and Karana.

I know for a fact the memblur tactics weren't used... warping wasnt used as it didnt exist... 1 person playing 12 mages wasn't used... dps wars weren't used...

Oh and ya... there were GMs and guides all over the place to enforce PNP and first in force...

This is almost as far away from "classic" as you can get.

No this is nothing like it was in "classic" so you have what we call a self defeating argument.

Because this is a myth. What you are seeing now at the top end isn't even close to reliving EQ's old days. Yes, you see the guild rivalries and competition but the actual content windows are nothing like what they used to be. You could log in and see a dragon alive for hours. You remember the whole concept of a fear or hate break? That doesn't exist in the same way as it used to. People have replaced their memories of what true classic was like, with memories from progression servers. Which is fine, that's just how it is, but people need to stop and understand that this is nothing like classic. So to keep using that as some kind of an argument against instancing is just incredibly shallow.

Took out that Sky boss last night too.

HAHA I appreciate the looking out

I understand all of the things you have listed. I asked why you guys want to do that instead of doing something else with your limited lifespan if you had the option to not do that. Is it just about the loot? The feeling of being better than people who only play 3 hours a day? What's the drive? These are serious questions, and I'm genuinely curious.

I have a flawless recollection of EQ from 1999. I demand the devs put in a system that disconnects you every 20 minutes because Susan can't just walk her lazy next door instead of calling all the time.

I will cancel all my accounts and burn my Kronos in a huge pile at the EC tunnel if these demands are not met in 5...4...3...

People like to have a hobby, some people it's working on cars all day long, others it's fishing or something. They enjoy being at the top in EQ, and if that's what makes them happy then who are you to belittle them for it? Do you not have any hobbies? If not I'd say go get one, you will enjoy life much better that way instead of trying to talk down to others.

Truthfully, and this is me speaking for me. I just don't have anything better to do. I own my own company, so when I'm not working (100 yards from my house in my woodshop) I can play EQ. I can work between spawns if I so choose. The reason I do it, is to get the most kills, because that's really the only measure of top guild right now.

good times

Times have changed, no one is impressed or cares about what TL has accomplished within Ragefire. Back in the day when guilds did it, everyone was in awe, now days we just don't care. We all just want a chance to kill end game raid bosses. This will not be possible without instancing. Really hope you guys come around on this one. You guys have done an amazing job so far, heck these changes are in the right direction as well. But really hope you take the finally step and give us raid instances so instead of 5% of the server pop completing end game maybe 75% could.

I think it's just sad that you think the work other players create/cause for others, in a non-PvP environment, is more meaningful than it really is. Your best argument is nostalgia, and it's a strong one, but strong in the sense of occupying the high ground in a battle, or being the defenders in a fort, because non-instanced raiding is how things are now, and it's harder to change than stay the same.

The biggest problem of all, is you fight beyond the nostalgia, as hard as if the things people want would remove something actually meaningful, like skill. Unfortunately, this is a competition to see what people are willing to do, not capable of doing. I understand what it is that you want here, and it is absolutely true that EQ provides it where other games do not. To me, it still does even in GoD and beyond. We won't agree on that, so we'll leave that where it is, and return to the current system. EQ Classic-PoP is too vulnerable to certain factors. Let me put it this way...if they ever launch that Seasonal Challenge server, but its only difference from TLP is that expansion unlocks occur instantly after requirements are met, with no other changes to create some sort of standardized competitive format, then anyone who does not spend the entire time before the server launches recruiting the most massive guild they can, and who does not start saving up their kronos so they can use 5 extra mages to get their main (whatever class it may be) up to 50 in 2-3 days, will automatically get too far behind and is a fool for even wanting to play on that server.

The following statements are directed at anyone and everyone:

1. If someone wants monopoly that is determined purely by dedication (purely time spent such as socking, not time spent learning or improving skill), they'll continue to support the current system.

2. If someone want handouts (I'm not saying I believe this, but in an effort to be fair, I'm adopting this position), they'll continue to fight for a completely instanced system.

3. If someone wants the game to actually take a step towards competition, they'll support compromises. I believe the best one is instancing in the temporal back half of an expansion, and even UN-instancing expansions like GoD and beyond for the first half of them. Without letting the "losers" catch up in gear at the back half of an expansion, the advantages and momentum winner(s) gain from previous expansions just gets bigger and bigger, and how is that "competition"? Wouldn't starting over on even footing at the beginning of each expansion allow the superior guilds to clearly demonstrate that superiority without the factor of momentum from all the way back in Classic taking away a bit of the value?

Nostalgia aligns with #1, but nostalgia has been forsaken for convenience and Daybreak's finances in so many areas already...why not compromise it in favor of competition?

Direct question to you: Imagine nothing changes for Classic through PoP (i.e. they don't instance those raids), but they do UN-instance the first-half of GoD, OoW, and beyond. Would you be more inclined to remain for those expansions?

Hex, you are so belittling and combative that it's very hard to see how what you stand for isn't what's wrong with the game. I believe the willingness to work hard, try and fail, then succeed is not in question. The end game environment of post-apocalyptic style resource monopolization is.
Join, or die. Play the game my way, or be forever left in the dust. These are the viewpoints you've expressed. You are so far removed from the view from the other side that you rely on your own assumption of laziness on which to base your argument.

I'm just waiting for Ionz post count to get high enough that his forum title changes to Augur... it would be entertaining to see him become one of the alt accounts he's convinced are being used.

Patches are made for Twisted Legacy and TL only... deal with it #Devs #GMS #TL all of them mean the same....... We now lost more raid content and will have more KSing /pick GJ DEVS GJ

All valid points. But DBG has already compromised. They have instanced now everything, other than the raid kills themselves. They've stated that the want it to remain competitive, and that's their belief on how it should be, and how (as of right now) it will remain.

I'm here until they make another server, or this one dies, because there are a lot of things that are fun to experience again. I came back to experience those things I remember, and have been doing as such. Along the way I wanted to raid, and play on more of a hardcore scale, as I play other games. Yes, I know some of you don't believe just socking is hardcore, but that's about as hardcore as it gets in EQ, at least in this era.

In relation to your question, I'd be all for them keeping the raid targets instanced, and guilds just duking it out. Some guilds try, and some succeed. The rest just come on the forums and complain about how they want things, for their own benefit.

#schizophrenia