[Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] and Boxing

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by teagray2, May 23, 2015.

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  1. Ootax Augur

    Sounds to me like you need to understand the difference between botting and using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] for boxing, but keep whining and see how far that gets you.
  2. Gehlfein Elder


    Let me rephrase: Almost every boxer I've run into in game is a complete jerk.

    Feel better?
  3. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    How does a group of 6 characters being controlled by 1 person affect your gameplay differently than a group of 6 players being controlled by 6 people?
    Shadva Del`Shai likes this.
  4. Jent Elder

    For every [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] user there are probably 10 users saying they are using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]. I sat and watched an automated mage group yesterday. It was hilariously obvious. I /danced with them, sent tells, waved, pulled their mobs and not a peep. Just kept mindlessly scanning and pulling by itself.
  5. Tamier Augur

    That is not true: http://[Unmentioned 3rd Party Software].com/wiki/Repeater. That is exactly what [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] can do. Replicate every keystroke from one account, to automate the other 83.3% (if you 6 box) while never opening those windows or giving those accounts individual commands.
  6. Tamier Augur

    Report them, DBG's has already given a suspension.
  7. MBear Augur

    EQ is about the people. That is 1 person, not 6 people that are playing regularly on the server.
    If it was just about the content, I would go play a single player game.

    There are lots of reasons but this is one of them. I won't bother listing more until I know if this is an honest question or you just want us to post our thoughts so that you can belittle us for having those sorts of WRONG opinions. (Hopefully the former)
    Tamier and PathToEternity like this.
  8. Tamier Augur

    I understand quite well. Botting is doing things without having to input them. [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] can do that for 5 of your 6 accounts through replication. I call that botting or automation or whatever you want to call it. Its still a clear violation of the ToS. It is 3rd party, there is a definate advantage.
  9. Zhutuak Augur

    Why on earth would anyone box on multiple machines, buy a good machine and box on one w/ the windows stacked and switch via the in game mouse release. Just 1 keyboard.

    Seems to me many people do not understand the terminology "box" came from windowing EQ back in the day via EQW. People who do not understand or used this program must not have understood and actually bought or had multiple machines to play multiple accounts?

    In "boxing", there is no multiple keyboards or computer or monitors, just one across the board.
    Tamier likes this.
  10. Tamier Augur

    Its just any justification they can come up with. I love legit boxing. Nothing wrong with it. What they are doing is taking something clearly against the rules and saying i'll use it until you force me to stop. And probably try to use it even after that.
  11. Rutaq New Member

    Well lets see.... just to name a few....

    1. Boxing allows a single player to farm quicker and easier than a single player / single character. So they unfairly impact the game economy.
    2) Boxing limits the grouping opportunities on a group focused game.
    3) Boxing locks down limited group content for the entertainment of single individual.
    Tamier likes this.
  12. deeznuts New Member

    no
  13. MBear Augur

    That isn't true. boxing was around since the very beginning and we called it 2 boxing because we had 2 machines set up. The term stuck and came to mean playing more than one character by any method.
    If you are 2boxing, having 2 machines is far superior to anything else. Beyond that, a software solution becomes very helpful.
    Adrienna likes this.
  14. Shmef Augur


    still not automation because it still requires human input every time. you are arguing that 1 key press should only do 1 action. how is it not automation to press a macro and cast 5 spells? you are not manually pressing each key each time. this is not apples to oranges this is the exact same thing.
  15. MBear Augur

    I believe he was referring to 3rd party programs, not discussing banning EQ macros.
  16. jagarr Augur

    i'm a boxer personally (woof!), and i am really surprised that so many people are flipping out now about boxing after we've been warning DB about exactly how these servers would play out for three months on the forums.

    listen, boxing gives you a massive advantage. i only three box, and it is incredible. i have limited play time and boxing helps me make the most of it. the modern EQ game environment not only supports but encourages at LEAST two boxing. it isn't uncommon for a high level xp group to contain 3 or 4 boxers with 3 or 4 chars each, 12 total chars in the camp in 2 groups, or 12 chars with 1 group and the rest benched and buffing/only being played for emergencies.

    real people are still grouping to reach these goals. people are working together all over the place. the scale is just upped a bit. instead of 6 guys in one camp, its six guys in 2 or 3 camps. a lack of content/overcrowding is still the issue.

    the content is super old and trivial and without DB spending a fortune to change essentially the entire game for one server set, it will stay this way. you guys really ought to just fire up a box and enjoy the joy ride with everyone else. the 'feeling' of grouping and stuff is definitely still there for me.

    if we're honestly asking questions about the sitch here, i've got a couple:

    why didn't DB think harder about instancing and deny it as a possibly only to renig on that at the last minute? why did they decide to forego the PNP only to basically 180 on that this week and start banning people (starting with streamers) ?
    why did they insist on one server and then flip flop to two yesterday? why did they let us vote on all sorts of stuff and and discuss gameplay elements for months and then ignore it all?

    why the hell didn't they just launch kunark with vanilla?! how the hell did vote to unlock pass (lol)?

    who knows man, but this is what we got. play it or don't at this point.
    PathToEternity likes this.
  17. deeznuts New Member


    This guy gets it. KVM switches and all that.
  18. Shmef Augur



    when SOE became DBG they did not swap out their entire staff, DBG is SOE with a different name and less staff. smed is still at the head, the company as a whole is now owned by Columbus Nova instead of sony. piestro worked for SOE, not sony, last i saw he was moved to eq2 community manager and unless he got canned in the recent layoffs he is prob still there. also piestro specifically said key replicators were ok, automation was not.
  19. Blackdot New Member

    Everyone knows and understands that playing 2 accounts on one computer without any type of software requires you to ALT-TAB to the other game, and hit a key there, the ALT-TAB back again.

    I solved this a while ago by adding more computers. In fact, here's a picture of me around PoP era, with only 4 PC's:
    [IMG]

    Playing those 4 computers, means I moved my arms from the numpads on the center to the numpads on the sides. As you can maybe see, I had 4 accounts back then:
    1. Monk
    2. Cleric
    3. Enchanter
    4. Druid

    Everyone except the monk had their NUM1 key set to something like:
    /pause 4,/assist monky
    /pause xx,/cast yy
    /pause zz,/cast nn
    /etc

    So, I'd go out and grab something on my monk, flip my arms to the sides, and then hit "1" on the 2 computers on the side, then hit the "1" on the monk and cleric. On the monk, it usually only meant

    /attack on
    /kick
    /roundkick
    /brucelee

    The pause of .4 before the assist is the time it takes to move my arms from the sides and back to the center keyboards. this makes everyone start at the same time. Very easy, no automation whatsoever. Is this botting? no.

    Some people posted similar setups where they'd use a cloth hanger to actually press more keys on several keyboards at once as well as mice rigged together for common movement. I tried that too for a while, solution later in this writing...

    [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]
    [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] takes away the 4 keyboards and 4 mice. Now I can hit "1" and have that "strike key 1" go to all 4 accounts at the same time. It is STILL identical to what I used to do back then, only I don't have to make freakish contraptions with cloth hangers - [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] does that for me. I say to [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]: "When I press 1 on my numpad, do that on all these 4 accounts"

    Ma_cro_Quest
    Ma_cro_quest is cheating, let's all agree on that right away. It allows you to write stuff like:

    Code:
    if(warrior.health < 20%) then
      cleric.CastFastHeal(warrior)
    end
    
    (I have no clue what code looks like btw, I'm a software developer for a living, so I imagine it should look somewhat like that)

    this is basically letting software play the game for you while you aren't there. For anyone using , or similar software - shame on you. If you're banned you deserved it.

    BUT - let me be quite clear - [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] or 4 keyboards, I still alternate between those two playstyles, and have no problems dealing with both - in fact, I now have 6 F-Key numpads and 6 mice that make it easy for me to play six accounts, because I can place my hand on all 6 "1" keys at once. To run 99% of content, I typically use these buttons:
    F1: Assist the monky, get the party started
    F2: More nukes/debuffs/dots/warrior abilities/whatnots
    F3: Same as F2, but druid & cleric are now fully healing the poor warrior
    F4: Buff for named
    F5: Do named stuff/burns
    F6: Part 2 of named stuff/burned, since each EQ social can only hold 5 instructions
    F7: Autofollow
    F8: Sit casters down

    And in all other situations, like too many adds, or being charmed, I wipe where a regular group would probably make it without too much trouble.

    At the end, it's all about sending a a single keypress to multiple computers. If I can do that with a cloth hanger, a set of narrow function keys then there is no reason whatsoever to ban the use of [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software], which essentially does exactly the same. It's a virtual clothhanger!

    There are so many players that think that "oh, it's a bot" just because I, or others can fire a spell from several characters at the same time. There's no magic at all to this. It's simply sending a keystroke to multiple game instances, and as long as it can be done EASILLY with a stick, or hitting several keyboards etc then there is zero reason to accuse a virtual stick of cheating. It goes back to you as being unreasonable.

    But I do agree with everyone that BOTS are the scum of any MMO. Having a game where you can basically go to sleep while your virtual toons keep on fighting and healing and doing stuff unattended, that kills games like this. Thank you. Let the flames start
    Jent, Melanippe and jagarr like this.
  20. rexton New Member

    Boxers are a self sufficient group controlled by one person. A single person should not have the ability to control a second character, let alone an entire group. This gives this person an unfair advantage over legitimate groups made up of different people. A single boxer can coordinate the entire groups DPS (characters and their pets), at a single mob and do considerable burst damage. Such damage is difficult to accomplish by a 'real' group of people.

    Banning boxers or implementing 'rules' are a start, however are not adequate. The game dynamics must me modified to prevent such exploits from occurring in the first place.

    Our group of 5 people made up of different classes fought our way to a mob at the end of the dungeon only to find a boxer camping the mob our group was intending to kill. Our group went to another named mob only to find the same thing.... a boxer camping the mob. It is unfair that ONE person can control five mages and camp mobs. The (first) player controlling the mages was auctioning rare drops the next day.

    Boxers disrupt the game.
    Boxers level too fast.
    Boxers destroy the economy.
    Boxers take up people slots on the server so people can play.
    Boxers are unsightly.... who wants to see 5 characters auto-following each other running in a straight line... looks like a human centipede being chased by angry elementals

    Simply put...Boxers DESTROY the EQ experience.
    Tamier likes this.
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