Do warriors ever get any dps at all? I mean above what they have at 55?

Running in circles is hard?

i see 225 AA's under the category Melee DPS but most are passive
http://eqaasearch.org/aainfo.asp?search_fd9=Melee DPS&search_fd12=Warrior

war should ask for more AA's like
Wars Sheol's Heroic Blade -+35% chance to critcal hit, +68% melee haste, +150% critical hit damage (for 1 min, extendable) + 2hs for 2398/2555/2820 with 1000%/500%/200% accuracy mod. Timer 11. 20 min reuse

Pulling for a group can be, depending on the situation. And it certainly used to be before the game went easymode. Maybe not "hard" but it takes more skill than straight tanking things.

Not everyone pulls 5 at a time and ae's it all to death, foolish halfling!

OMG why not!?

Larth, IIRC Warriors in the most recent Beta asked for an upgrade to Brutal Onslaught (passive) and Shield Topple (active), while asking for Calculated Strike (active) to be unlinked from Cyclone Roar (aggro). Instead we got Strike Through, which nobody really uses, and lost the damage component on Gut Punch.

I don't think anyone here is ignoring the downsides to things being primarily spell based. But you're seemingly ignoring the complications of things being primarily disc based, and especially the way warrior discs are designed. They intentionally put downsides to many of our disc lines like sub 100' unfocusable range and damage on our primary AE disc, and we can't be bailed out by the 2.25s global cooldown considering we don't have a spellbar as a fallback - if a warrior blows through discs too fast, nothing's left.

People can talk about theory craft all they want, I just know from my experience that there is a high skill ceiling any class that requires a large of situational awareness whether if it's war, pal, sk or even enchanter. I think anyone with superior situtational awareness and reaction time would be able to excel at any tank class. The ability setups of each class have their pros/cons, yes, but those are easier to adapt to vs the obtaining the true core competencies of good-to-excellent tanks.

Kamea is correct, the hardest part of playing a tank is the situational awareness, if you don't have it, your not going to be a great tank (player), you may be an ok tank without it if you are only in the main mob lineup or you have good CC, but the sk/pal really need it as they are mostly add tanks on raids. Those War that are not primadonnas and grab adds etc are the ones with good situational awareness, and make great tanks. All the tank classes have all the tools needed to do what they were intended to do, tank, and to grab/agro the mobs. they just each do it in different ways and each have their bonuses and pitfalls.

Having played all classes I find the difficulty to go in order Tank > > CC > healer > melee dps > caster dps because of the need to know your surroundings, fellow players, mobs, and raid/group makeup.

Tanks have to be aware of every mob on the field, + what the CC are doing, + what the healers are doing, they can leave the dps to themselves. The CCers need to know how the tank is going to handle the situation and what mobs are snare/root/mez/charm, and where the mobs are, etc. The healers have to watch all the tanks, know the mechanics to be able to choose the best heals for the right situation etc. Melee dps have to position and know mechanincs. Caster dps just needs to know mechanics, they don't have to worry about position as much.

Uhh, if you're arguing that the skill ceiling of all 3 tank classes is equal, then yes, you're ignoring a lot. I'd be the first to admit that a paladin has a higher ceiling than an sk, due to the nature of their utility. They can switch into healing mode and save lives. Neither sk nor war can do that. And on the same token, I've never seen a warrior pull as creatively or skillfully as many sks can, at least prior to everyone getting an easymode single pull auto split button.

Every class requires situational awareness, tanks more than most. But there's nothing wrong with admitting that classes with more diverse role sets have a higher skill ceiling (they do).

And please, you're really trying to argue that a discipline based system is inherently harder (or at best equal) to learn play/maximize than a smaller discipline system plus a spell bar? Have you played a knight before? I'm not saying it's simplistic to be a warrior's best by any means, but from many aspects it's more straightforward than playing a hybrid because they have pretty much one and only one role.

Yes, being a great add tank is vital to being an A-class warrior.

Thing is, warrior bots and B-class warriors can play with a few hotkeys at a reasonable level of proficiency. But for high tempo play, this simply won't work with warriors. The A-class warriors I know have more complicated UIs than the A-class paladins I know simply due to things having to be separated for proper disc timer management. You simply can't be a high tempo warrior if you're blowing discs an unnecessary fashion, which is what happens with hotkeys.... discs won't magically reset after waiting for 2.25 seconds.

My spells don't reset in 2.25 seconds either.

Baby you can't even tank that long

/shield me Wiji

warrior are not a dps machine lol we are best tank in game but not dps if u whant dps reroll as a zerker rogue or sometink else lol

Looks like we found the one guy who's been reading Battleblade/axe posts for a decade thinking, "Hmm, sounds reasonable."


Most modern MMOs have flexibility built into the game. This is no way an argument for changing EQ, but having utility classes do 65-75% the DPS of DPS classes (although this usually involves changing ability specs/etc) in these games does not diminish demand for purer DPS classes at all.

I really don't see how people who think like you (you're not alone) play the game. A lot of raiding for any given warrior is waiting to tank. Do you guys just like to AFK until it's your turn to tank? And get offended at the suggestion you may have buttons on your screen (beyond auto attack, or is even that too much?) that aren't tanking related? Sounds pretty boring.

Thing is, warriors aren't knights. We'll never have the utility of knights (as an aside, SK utility needs some modernization.) The quality of warrior melee (aka DPS) is indeed a core part of the class.

Wait you mean to tell me, you can do more then wait to tank?

Heresy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next thing you know, warriors will be asking for ways to increase their DPS with nondefensive based weapon set ups, and *gasp* not using shields.

That must be stopped!!

We are getting ready to step up if there is a sudden tank death, which can happen often on brutal raid boss mob events.

If warriors can one shot tank events in your guild, you have 10 warriors per raid, yes I guess you can dps, but that's not the case in all guilds.

So all of your warriors taunt a mob when a tank dies? Very strange.

Do you play a tank in raid ? Judging by your answer i hope not

Maybe if you read around the forums abit (mainly the melee class forums), you would know.

Anyway, lets compare Dual-Wielding Proficiency and Defensive Proficiency. DW increases your mitigation by 15%. Defensive increases it by 30%. However, when you use Last Stand, does it not drop Defensive Proficiency? Why run that 30% mitigation all the time before you tank? DW is 15% less than that (excluding loss of mitigation from loss of shield) and your shamans should easily be able to heal any ramp you take (honestly if a tank dies to wild ramp that's lol considering how much tougher they are even without discs and proficiencies melee. Ramp is a different story). With DW you are swinging 2 weapons rather than 1, you have an 80% damage mod, and since it has a parry mod on the same slot as Flash of Anger, you can use it to knock off DW, bandolier your sword and board, and pop a disc, no? At the very least trying to do damage gives you something more to do than waiting for your turn to be slaughtered. Granted, if you are one of those people who want to do the bear minimum of your class then /shrug

The only event I would really say don't bother with trying to do damage is Arx 5. That raid is just ugh.

p2aa,

Rounds occur every ~3s or so. Tanks either die to 1) a melee round or 2) spell damage within 0.5s of a melee round. There is a ~2s window (taking latency etc into consideration) between rounds where you can gain aggro a mob without taking damage. You need slow reaction time to take 2 rounds to get setup (or at least, get aggro+flash going.) Even with 2H up, the odds of a shining+raid buffed tanks being 1 rounded from 100% on any particular round from is minimal, aside from Calix.

When I'm next in TO, I usually get to 2nd on aggro so I don't have to taunt when the other tank dies, and most of the time I'm able to get flash off without taking a round, since I react within the window.