Frenzic's Rule Set Proposal

People didn't train others on Vulak, the ones that did and those that used hacks (WULIAS) got perm banned by Gm's and kicked from EoE immediately.

Hmmm

Then for whatever reason, the GM's that got involved on Vulak took a far more severe line than they did when dealing with issues on Fippy. On Fippy some people were caught multiple times on the same account and all that happened was that their suspensions got increased for a longer period each time, but as all of us that played on Fippy know, the GM's were very inconsistent...

In addition to what Mezrah already responded with - GMs fundamentally won't exist at all this time - as for the Wulias getting kicked, people knew he was hacking within the first week of the server - it took over two months for EoE to even consider the notion. (And he wasn't officially kicked until after Kunark, no? Hardly "immediate")

That's a super slow response time, not to mention I can guarantee there's plenty of cases where people were not punished for doing the same. Heck, there's many other admitted hackers that were part of EoE as well that ran with y'all for quite a while.

Additionally, trains certainly did happen from EoE at least once - I remember a joint DHS Fear raid (I think with LoGA? It's been a while) that included about a group of EoE intentionally aggroing CT during the clear with two golems still up to wipe us, followed up by around four total groups of EoE showing up to take CT while we were licking our wounds.

Red-headed step-child always gets it worse than the child... or is that no PC to say anymore?

Let be real, they're not gonna instance anything. You want a solution that delivers? Fix /guildwar command.

Devout

Gonna have to agree, Wulias was with us for a while and even though he was a blatant hacker. Personally, I liked the guy and so did a lot of people in early EoE, which may have been one of the major reasons he wasn't booted right away even though what he was doing was obvious. Yes, he wasn't the only one either and no, they didn't get booted, but they also weren't blatant about it.

The CT incident, wow I actually forgot about that one, but I do remember that happening.

To be fair Irbax - I think it was Wulias (or some other druid I was irritated with - but Wulias is the only druid that I recall in EoE anymore), a bard and an enchanter that started the initially training. Most of y'all didn't actually incite the issue - just swooped in after we were having to deal with the wipe. It was a "group of EoE" that really trained with EoE proper just taking advantage of the results after the fact. [I did try to inform Damdor of the circumstance, but he was callous as he often was to those outside EoE at the least (perhaps internal too, seem to hear mixed reads on him)]

Quite memorable from our side, since it was the one and only time that we bothered trying to "compete" via waiting on a spawn. [at least until I was forced to leave for my surgery that ended up being my complete quitting - perhaps they tried some more camping raid mobs after my time though...]

I was in one of the lesser guilds that had to compete for kills vs. EoE. i don't remember a ton of detail from it now but i do remember the inny poopsocks being the worst. EoE behaved terribly and really went out of their way to get the GMs on their side, but frankly everyone behaved like children. I posted about it a week or so ago... I was begging people in our group to not get involved with the OOC nonsense and I saw our own monks training and griefing also.

The worst behavior came from the staff themselves though. The GMs at the time seemed pretty clueless and easy to sway. More than once they would make a decision, everyone would riot in OOC, and then they would say 'OKOKOK, JUST FLIP A COIN' as if they had completely given up on trying to control the situation. Then we'd /rand for it and DPS race it afterwards anyway. It was really pretty awful, looking back on it.

can't see it happening, but that would be awesome. wouldn't fix anything as people would just refuse to war for their pixels and continue sockin' though. plus pvp+ leads to even bigger zergs...

Hopefully they don't take time on instancing. Its such a bad idea its not even close to how Eq was meant to be played and the time and resources that would be required. Much easier to copy/paste and make Fippy 2.0.

=|

yeah lets make the same disaster again and this time without GMs trying to fix the issues...

Hopefully we get a couple servers. We just want different things. I liked things enough the last time around. The instance just doesn't sit right with me.

There definitely seem to be two different fairly well defined camps with incompatible ideals. If the new server is done like the last set were, I don't think that I will even make a character on it. Instancing might not be an ideal solution but it would prevent some of the very worst behavior.

I love the world of Norrath, the lore, the game play, dungeon crawling with friends. I spent years raiding 4 nights a week and loved that too. During all of the years that have played though my goal has never been to be better than someone else. I have never particularly cared how I stack up against others. As long as we are having fun and the mobs are dying, what does it matter?

There seems to be a new breed of player who care more about status and rankings than they do about the game itself. They will do anything to get what they want. If you are camping something that they want, they will train you and take your camp. If you are raiding something that they want, they will cheat and try to KS you. They care nothing for the world or the people in it.

Maybe there have always been people like this but they were held in check by the threat of discipline from the GM's. Perhaps that threat was never real and someone finally called the bluff, or maybe it deteriorated over time. Either way, these people were allowed to do whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted with no consequence.

As much as I want to play on a new progression server, I will not play on one where people are allowed to act like savages. If the rules aren't going to be enforced by GM's then they need to be enforced by mechanics.

dude, we all hate instancing. we're trying to compromise on a server that won't take three hundred years to come out but that also won't be a ghetto superhacker's RMT TOS violating paradise.

at the very least we'd need a way to police ourselves. a tribunal or something. otherwise it is going to be a zerg vs zerg trainfest that everyone besides us no-lifers will bail on in six weeks and then the studio will have wasted their time and we'll never see another progression server.

I disagree yager, i think the top guilds would be do /guildwar

few more changes to add:

1. restore old freeport... I miss north freeport bank...
2. make guards killable... they were good exp spots but those uber guards that can't be killed... ridiculous...
3. screw /guildwar... we need the old respect there was in the game, if you make an agreement you dang better stick with it!

top guilds will cheese whatever they can cheese. they will never add any unnecessary difficulty into their pixel farming strategies. i know. i've been in those guilds.

nobody is going to voluntarily pvp a rival guild to give them even the slightest legitimate chance of losing their pop unless they absolutely, positively have to for some reason.

they'll train one another repeatedly, doxx and blackmail, sleep with one another IRL for dkp and box access or loot council favoritism, hack each other and delete characters, use lesser guilds as feeder, RMT and otherwise grief2win, but they're not gonna fair-fight pvp anybody on a blue server.

honestly they're not gonna 'fair fight' anything. at that level, you skirt the rules as best you can for as much as you can get away with or you get beat. you don't have an honorable glove slap 10v10 ultimate warrior slim jim pvp session, you just sit your down and try to annoy the other group enough to get them to leave, or beat them to the spawn.

for this reason we need either a) a robust player tribunal system where your reputation actually matters or b) some form of instancing or lockouts, or we'll get what we got last time. i'm personally fine with what we got last time, but the majority of prospective players are not.

GMs won't be there to enforce rotations and while some guild leaders are stand-up gents, others are not.

I agree cheating and hacking is bs and needs to be prevented. I dont play in top guilds but I understand the drama, it can but fun to a certain extent and on the other hand frustrating. I only play in casual guilds and I box so still able to accomplish everything I need with a few friends and not get bullied around.

Someone hasn't tried raiding on the TLPs if they think that's an option "without being bullied around".