Do warriors ever get any dps at all? I mean above what they have at 55?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Questoften32, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. Questoften32 Augur

    I know they are tank, but among my characters I have a level 55 warrior I love but she cant kill very well, even compared to a sk ...and sometimes when not tanking, lets face it, you have to kill stuff, like kill 5 nocs or such and you don't always have a group. Not for every tiny thing. I'm being practical here. So any better at 60, or 70?
  2. Repthor Augur

    get use to it warrior dps wile tanking is steady but we have no burst and ifwe choose to dps (at lvl 100) then we can not tank. be a tank deal with it
  3. Kamea Augur


    I have to disagree to some extent. Thanks to furthering patching, DW does a lot to fix DPS tanking, I can have higher sustained DPS than DPS mercs while DW tanking with most group setups.

    DW is terrible with burns, for some reason it doesn't get boosted by brutal onslaught, fellstike+heroic, or mighty nearly as much as 2H. But it's almost at parity with 2H while not burning (which is what really matters in group content), and is much better for tanking.
  4. Xanathol Augur

    Funny you made that comparison, particularly since SKs are suppose to be more dps, but of course, are not. The quote "DPS tank", aka an SK, falls behind your Warrior dual wielding, all the way up to level 105. I've collected a mountain of parses of like characters ( lvl 105, max or near max AA, same tier of gear & weaponry, all same buffs, group make up, and all in like content ) and in aggregated results, a 105 Warrior dual wielding melees for ~16k dps. Comparative SK 2her dps was ~7.5k in melee. An SK with his pet, procs, and using a few DoTs & his spear DD can maintain ~13k in these same situations, or loading & casting all DoTs & spear, ~16.8k, which is unreasonable and not maintainable, not to mention only basically matches the dual wielding Warrior. Note that the numbers may vary in your experience, but the gaps should be pretty consistent, as long as you meet the criteria I laid out (same content, buffs, levels, etc).

    I certainly do not begrudge your wish for more DPS, but rather found the irony lost on the fact that SKs are so out of whack at all levels in regards to DPS that it remains a passing joke of sorts. SKs are still waiting for that "DPS tank" label to be fulfilled and it will never happen as long as SK melee is so far behind Warriors. The idea of a Paladin being a character that drops melee dps to gain heals, stuns, cures, etc works - you dropped one thing for another. The idea that EQ has SKs in - dropping melee dps to add spell dps - does not; you are dropping the very thing being added so it is a wash at best.
  5. Questoften32 Augur

    Lore wise a warrior should not be weak, a man or in this case woman at arms, a blade-master, master swordsman, Amazon lady, should have the strongest melee, a bare bones specialist with weapons.

    As a tank higher dps would help truly help. I'm not talking end game here but lets say at 65/70 to start with, as I don't skip to the end?

    Shadow knights? I think they should give them at least kick, and not on a shared cd with bash. with kick aa. This would not be op as they are so underpowered would just bring to normal. Not even that. I like the idea of a SK but they need help. Badly. I also want to see some sort of passive reaving, both with melee and spell, not just spell. Like a death cloak aura, that dose 1% additional damage with each attack and returns that 1% as health band additional mana besides spell effects in place a permanent stacking thing.

    As for sk there is not enough balance/integration between melee and spells, they run out of mana before they can do much, and then cant rely on there melee, they are in short weak. Resources deplete to fast damage so low, that good defense and life taps are not enough...in a prolonged battle they are very soon helpless as well.
  6. Brohg Augur

    So we're all on the same page here, that knights are worthless sadsacks, and the ones that we see soloing HAs or whatever are just figments of our imagination? Okay, same page.
    Kalipto and Battleaxe like this.
  7. Iila Augur

    The game they're talking about might as well be a completely different one from the one you're talking about.

    So yes, warriors get more dps at higher levels. No, they don't become a dps class. Literally every class gets more dps options above level 55, but none of the classes change roles.
  8. Ranpha Augur

    I think you meant "DPS Knight".

    It has always been:

    Knight = Tanking + Spellbook + Below Average DPS
    Warrior = Tanking + Average DPS

    This got messed up somewhat during SoF/SoD/UF, where Knights starting outdpsing warriors.

    At level 105 though it is more like:

    Knight = Tanking + Spellbook + irrelevant DPS
    Warrior = Tanking + irrelevant DPS
    Brohg and Battleaxe like this.
  9. Xanathol Augur

    No, per Elidroth and original descriptions, the DPS tank.Now implementation-wise, I completely agree with you as it has been messed up for most of EQ, finally getting it close to right in the SoF / SoD era, but still wasn't quite enough and has fallen WAY out of whack again (as most things with SKs, ex. check SK aggro spells - they do less initial hate than the other tanks yet do nothing but aggro). It makes sense to drop Warrior like dps to become a better group tank (stuns), healer and curer, aka a Paladin, but certainly doesn't make sense to drop Warrior like dps to add back less dps in spells. Besides, you forgot that Warrior now = Tanking + Yellow Manabar Spellbook, ya know, the one not subject to interrupts or silence..
  10. Repthor Augur

    the non silece thign dosent hold true much anymore anyway when most all silences also causes the melee silence effect, so silence effects us all same way and have been for 2 x-packs now give or take
  11. Ranpha Augur

    Ehr, no. DPS *knight*. Thanks for playing. And please, don't give me this crap about a yellow mana bar. It's a bar, it's yellow. Does it allow me access to 500+ spells? No. It's still far more limited than your spell book, not to mention that you also have a yellow mana bar -- which has limited uses yes, now you're getting it.
    Battleaxe and Repthor like this.
  12. Wiji Elder

    In group content the ability to full heal yourself far out matches whatever miniscule damage warrior abilities mitigate it's not even funny. On top of that you get a superb epic, multiple fades, invis/ivu, ranged snares, and soloing capabilities.

    Re:dps I think all tanks could stand to gain some if it doesn't devalue the poor pure dps LFG.
  13. Xanathol Augur

    No - DPS tank - thanks for playing. Warriors have debuffs, procs, defensive procs, etc in that combat spell book - and quite honestly, I personally always thought you should have a bit more. Still, the idea of 'dps knight' is ridiculous - have more dps than just one other class and even then, that will be less than them on undead? Riiight. Please try again.
  14. Xanathol Augur

    Depends on the content. In trivial content, SKs are unreal but in challenging content, that 30%+ mitigation advantage far outweighs a random proc or a 4% chance to double crit a lifetap, especially since every tank has a pocket healer in hand, ie. a cleric merc.
  15. Belkar_OotS Augur

    I find it interesting that this is a hot topic for you. When I first started playing my warrior, warriors were considered the best at taking hits, and the best DPS while tanking. Knights were categorized as either offensive tanks (SK's) or defensive tanks (Paladins). Note, all were still crappy dps, and all were tanks. Shadow Knights do something negative to the mob to gain their tanking advantage, making them not get hit as hard by leeching ac/attack, and the obvious Lifetaps/Recourses - and therefore damage due to the nature of taps. Paladins being the or defensive tanks (Paladins) that cast beneficial spells on themselves for their advantage, or preventing the mob from causing damage such as with stuns.

    Historically all warriors had to offer was tanking, and DPS. Any utility they could obtain was via items, which were available to almost everyone. Our agro was limited and controlled by our DPS output. Later, they added more AA/Discs to help us with various class/agro issues, since weapon procs and proc augments were not enough.

    Honestly, all classes have changed enormously since the "good ol' days," and I think it is not particularly useful for infighting in class groups as long as we're more or less equitable. If we all tank similarly, DPS similarly and have unique but equally useful utility I consider things pretty dang good.
  16. Zoggzog Elder

    I've always thought Sk's were supposed to be "utility tanks" instead of dps. In other words, they have a utility belt of spells and abilities that give them extra flexibility warriors don't have. FD, pets, and a slew of debuffs/dots/etc, makes them a very versatile party member. They can fill a wide variety of roles, such as puller, tank, support dps, CC dps, etc, to varying degrees. Warriors can be....tank. Or possibly backup dps. Warriors are very good at what they do, but they are also very specialized in doing it. I do agree that SK spells could use a bit of a bump (particularly their lifetaps), but overall, they are a very good class when played correctly.

    Just my two cents.
  17. Ravengloome Augur

    Warriors "probably" have more Utility for others then SKs at this point in the game (Imperators Line/Field Guardian)

    And by probably I mean irrefutably.

    Ill laugh if someone says "o but SK can single pull"

    Because single pulling is a pretty useless "utility" to have in this day and age. Especially for a tank whos abilities scale upwards when tanking more then 1 mob.
    Sheex likes this.
  18. Bigstomp Augur

    Warrior dps even at the top end is weak. With an awesome burn and good support and a little luck we can compare to a half asleep or undergeared monk.

    That's not our job though, so I'm ok with that. At the upper end, our new tools make us tank better but cost us dps.
    Zoggzog likes this.
  19. Bigstomp Augur


    Don't hate on warriors. We're in pretty good shape right now and SK's could use a little boost I'll admit.

    And you can ignore imperators - if it's actually a mob that matters then pallys should have us covered so imperators should never land.
  20. Ravengloome Augur

    If its actually a mob that matters you should be using Imperator's Charge.