For a long time, I never used this spell. I wrote it off as terrible due to the 0.5s faulty cast that occurs if your target is above 45% HP. Several months ago, another cleric (thanks Jumvapace) showed me how to make a very nifty hotkey that works well as a failsafe to use Fifteenth Emblem: /cast Fifteenth Emblem/cast Spiritual Remedy/pause 1/cast Spiritual Remedy/cast Graceful Remedy This hotkey will attempt to cast 15th, and will cast one of two Remedies if 15th fails. I made a short video showing this hotkey in action: On a sample raid night, I cast Fifteenth Emblem 58 times, and it landed for (on average) 76k. That's a pretty good average, especially for a 0.5s cast time spell (and only a 6s recast). The real power of this spell though is it's value in actually saving another player. When you land Remedy on someone at low HP, their HP jumps up, but it really isn't enough. Landing a 15th on someone at low HP sometimes heals for over 100k. It's a very powerful spell and I highly recommend it, if you don't normally use it or never liked it before because of the faulty cast mechanic.
I was using 15th on a multibind: Ward spiritual Graceful 15th I was having a great deal of success with it, but I noticed my cast numbers were lower than other clerics, and my total amount healed was lower. I knew that it was because I was being more efficient and effective per cast, but was afraid people who check parses would only look at how many casts/unit of time, and total amount (over) healed. I still say it's a very effective setup, especially when combined with other clerics who are multi binding a lot of remedies, 15th fills in that long pause when a tank is hovering at 30% or less.
I actually really like this on a multibind. Most of the time I have 2x Remedy on a bind. I rarely use Interventions/Renewals (except on certain events). If we make the assumption that an average heal lands for 25k, big heals lose a lot of their value. Multibinding just 2 Remedies gives you an average 2.375 recast time for each spell. Subtract the ~1.5s global cooldown, and you have about 0.7s of wait between the two casts. This is not made up for by casting an Intervention or Renewal instead (imho). Over a long period of time, you will have a higher number of total heals for using only Remedies than for weaving Remedy > Remedy > Intervention/Renewal. It can be a tough choice between the 0.7s wait time and casting another spell (it's nice to always be casting something). Renewals/Interventions do often land for over 25k, so it's hard to write them off. Over time I use them less and less (only 1 slot used for an Intervention now which I rarely cast), and still have 15th in my pocket for when a larger heal is needed. It also makes my spell lineup more flexible. There are a few special cases - if I am in a 3 warrior group, I will use more Interventions when Imperator's Charge is up (warrior spell haste). Renewal is useful in the Void (for cures). I will twincast Renewals on Arx event 3 (heal debuff aura -- 15th Emblem is very powerful against those totems btw). But for the most part, I am only multibinding two Remedies. As for feelings about parses etc, maybe I am old and jaded, but I wouldn't sweat what other people think. I like hearing constructive feedback from people, such as ideas about how to use certain spells/AA. But plain old "you lost the heal parse" is lost on me. If I were regularly being outhealed by DRU/SHM/BST, I could see it being indicative of a problem. If you have a spell lineup you like using, and have thought it through, you should use it regardless of being #1 on a parse, and fearing judgment from other people. There's more to raiding than that. Rezzing, rebuffing, or using Splash/IoS won't result in as high of a parse as single target spamming, but they will provide more of a benefit to the raid.
As another benefit of that combo, mana usage was quite low compared to the renewal multibind lineup, leaving me able to save my QM for emergencies. I still use the 15th lineup, depending on how many other clerics are there. People can argue back and forth all day about which setup is better, but I feel they compliment each other. Too prove to myself that 15th multibind was effective, I took my burn caster to Neriak 4th gate, and went up against the named skelly, with no tank, and me casting nothing but heals. With the 15th lineup I could keep her alive, with the renewal, the pause between casts was a bit too much and she kept dieing about half way into the fight.
I have long hated 15th due to exactly what you describe Sirene, but that hotbutton would make it worth it, very nice! Assuming an actual global cooldown of 1.75s: Multibinding SR > GR > intervention > intervention > intervention will net (if not on Celestial Rapidity) 38.7 heals per 100s. Just spamming SR > GR and waiting during the cooldown will net 38.1 heals per 100s, with a significantly lower average per cast potential heal than with interventions. If add Celestial Rapidity with interventions multibind you'll increase to 43.8 heals per 100s. Under Celestial Rapidity with just SR > GR, you'll only increase to 39.6 casts per 100s. With 3 warriors doing a proper Imperator's Charge rotation, in a MT group, it's more like 42 heals with interventions, or 39 if only used SR > GR, per 100s. However, adding 15th to the SR > GR bind definitely changes things, potentially being more heals than with interventions (if the tank's HP is very often below 45%). OK, now for my 'tough love' speech. If don't believe in tough love, don't read any further... 58 15ths sounds like a lot in a night, but not compared to the 350+ intervention/F_ Renewals that can be cast in a raid night, if using those in a multibind after SR/GR. IMO, (mana?) efficiency is garbage (what other kind of efficiency is there? spell gem? bleh). It matters not at all any more (except possibly in ToR, maybe). With Glyph of Lost Secrets plus liberal use of VP and QM, it's impossible to run out of mana. Healing effectiveness is EXACTLY measured by the heal parse. If your heals are not landing when the tank needs the heal, then you're not being effective. It does not matter how many or how few heals you cast, how big or how small they are. If you're a main healer for that tank, and you're not top on that heal parse, then you were not as EFFECTIVE at healing that tank as anyone that beat you on the heal parse. Yes, you maybe are effective to the EVENT, by rezzing, buffing, etc. But your effectiveness as a healer is exactly measured by the tank's heal parse. If someone beats you on the heal parse, then overall, they were a more effective healer for that tank than you. Period. THAT is EXACTLY how you determine which style of healing is most effective. Whoever is highest on the tank's heal parse, is using the most effective healing style, at that time, for that tank. I agree that having a variety of healing styles on a raid can be beneficial (as long as none of them are Light/Word spammers - ugh) and that the heal parse is not the be all/end all of total healing effectiveness. Those that cast many splashes, designated buffer/rezzers, etc etc will obviously be lower on the heal parse when they have to perform those duties. However, the heal parse IS the be all/end all for individual healing effectiveness for that tank, during that parse timeframe. If your primary duty is to heal that tank, and someone beats you on the tank's heal parse, they were more effective at healing that tank than you. If they were a great deal above you on the heal parse, then they were a great deal more effective than you. IE - if the top cleric healed the tank for 1.5 million hp vs that mob, and you only healed the tank for 200k (approximate real numbers for some of our heal parses) for that mob, then you were only 13% as effective of a healer FOR THAT TANK as the top cleric. Most healers don't like to hear it, but if you're low on the tank's heal parse, and your primary job was to heal that tank, then you were terrible at it. The method you're using is not effective. Ask the top two what their methods were, and adopt those methods (and work to improve on those methods). Personally, I've not had anyone beat me on a heal parse that wasn't using a similar method of multbinding SR > GR > interventions/FRs. If anyone were to do so, though, I would certainly adopt their methods. Don't take this to mean that I think anyone's a terrible healer if they're not top on the tank's heal parse, if they're doing other things, healing others, buffing, rezzing, etc... However, if you're not doing much of that, and you're not at least 80% or so of the top healers on the heal parse, then you need to look at changing your healing methods, to be more effective.
To the op, unfortunately, the above post is correct, no one seems to care about anything other than your numbers on the mt. But rejoice in the fact that your job just got easier, target mt-mash a button-congrats your #1 on mt parse and an awesome cleric. Efficiency isn't garbage when one of the mt's clerics goes down and there's no DR's left and instead of them sitting with no mana, you hit them with your QM that you didn't need to use on yourself. Not everyone has the luxury of just having to spam-heal the mt. In the "blue-collar" world of some clerics (like myself), I have to heal 3-4 mt, 3-4 sk, 2-3 other clerics (so they can focus on mt) a Pally or 2, plus my own group. Try to get an accurate parse from that mess. Instead, they just look at mt parse and decide you weren't as "effective". Sucks, but it is the truth. I have yet to see a heal parse, in 70+ raids, I havnt seen 1. I have to go by my own parse, which doesn't tell the whole story. Friday my parse said I healed for over 40 million, in 1125 heals cast. What does that mean.....I don't know.....good? Bad? Does it include splashes and MGB Celestials? I don't have a clue. But I guess if it doesn't show, I'll be removing them along with issuance and AI.
Roxxy, one thing to keep in mind (and nothing against you Nylrem), but those of us who main a cleric, like yourself, will often have similar but important differences in our heal strategey than someone who mains a mage (where multi binding is the end all/be all) and feels that should also be the best possible way in every situation for cleric'ing. We can rehash the old thread, but it had some important distinctions. IF you are focusing on one tank only at a time, it can be a fantastic approach. But between 1/2 and 2/3 of all raid clerics aren't in a warrior focused group healing only one tank. And therefore flexibility of style, while using some of the main properties of multibinding or the spell order if still manually cast tends to be what makes us more effective and good healers. Forget that 'heals hit 25k or up to 30k max on average' as no guild is the same. It probably does mean that guilds like mine where my heals still hit for 35-42k on average is a guild with non cohesive "max spamming" clerics. But that's what most of the guilds at my level are going to be. 1-2 rockstar healers, the rest average and some skating by. (If you had 40 million in exactly 1125 casts, each cast healed for approximately 35,556.
Don't remove issuance, if we had more clerics that did that right around the main mob, healing on pets and melee would be way less demanding. Most clerics don't see the value of that spell. Cast it just before or during incoming, during lull spots, and cycle with other clerics. Great use of forceful rejuv too. It is not a spell that you cast during the raid as a "main" heal, it is cast as a proactive heal and if used in conjunction with others, really makes a difference.
Roxx, you also don't see heal parses for SA raid because most our tanks don't look at them, or parse. I can tell you one of the most effective healers in terms of healed amount#'s is a light user, because we are usually lower on healing because of # of healers, he lets the others use the faster stuff and he does the big #'s from the longer casting spells. We had a talk and it was very interesting to hear his side. He does not multibind, but uses his "feel" and it works very well. That doesn't mean he doesn't use rememdies etc, but he saves them for fast tank swaps etc. Guess I just wanted to say there are many ways of doing it, not all the best, but if your doing well, and your casts/#'s are satisfactory to you, keep doing it.
Agree with issuance. A while ago, I started calling "mem it" and "use it + forceful + use it again" during Argin Hiz to help with the final phase. I'm happy when 3 of the 6-7 clerics we might have on listen to me (well 2 others since I of course use it). I never used forceful until reading it talked about the power of multiple issuances. There are certain events where it's very helpful to use it. ~~ Sojero, that's interesting to hear that. One of our top parsers (who 100% of the time is always in the warrior group) is a light fanatic and said she's tried the other approach and prefers light. That said, it really is an interchange of how many healers are healing that one tank as to who is going to appear most effective. Being highest on healed amount is only part of the equation. (From the other thread, Nyrlem and I had once posted heal amount data and my approach blew his out of the water; I healed for similar but with much fewer casts. Therefore if I had cast as many spells as he did, my heal # would have been exceptionally higher than his.) I do believe it takes all kinds of heal patterns to do the job effectively.
Yeah, it really depends on raid makups. We usually only field 3-5 clerics, if we are lucky. We have maybe 1 druid when we are lucky, and we usually have 6-8 shaman. I think what happens for him is the shamans make up the slack with their wave heals and the other clerics are doing the fast casts and he fills in the gaps in between. There are some "light" healers that I wouldnt want as my healer, but he certainly is not one of those, as he reacts to the situation when needed and is an amazing healer. Same with Roxx, I enjoy having him in my group any day, between him and a shammy, I don't go down often. The biggest problem with most healers, especially with 2 in a group, is communication. We had a funny one happen recently, with a cleric and shm in a group, and the shm was like, hrm didn't think I had to heal the group with a clr in. I told him, no the cleric is being used to help the MT, we just want her aura's and patch heals, and if you go down she will step in. But the point was, the healers didn't communicate with each other so it lead to a bunch of offtanks dying. More than any heal parse or setup, communication throughout the heal team is needed, same with tanks to the heal team, via swaps etc.
0% chance the Light guy is doing it right. His high parse # is coming from doing nothing else through the whole encounter. I used to get similar results boxing a shaman to heal myself on pickup CToV raids. Top of the heal parse versus each dragon, using slow-as-balls shm heals, because all that character did was cast them on me via a 5 line social with /pauses. No use of cooldowns, someone else was debuffing, Ramp/AEs/cures got 0 attention, etc. Your guy is getting worse actual healing output than a mercenary. His 'strengths' are forced myopia and the ability to enter a raid instance. Probably has more mana? He should be encouraged to seek a higher standard. Goodmethod + worsemethod is better than just good alone, but that doesn't mean the raid wouldn't be *much* stronger with multiple clerics doing it right.
Brohg, you would be wrong. He does use other spells as is needed, IE group heals when multiple tanks are tanking, fast cast when hes the only healer, etc. As I said, he adapts to the situation and if there are multiple healers he makes up the slack that people using lower, faster heals have by using the bigger, slower heals. I can attest to that as we had a war parse for us and I had my cleric on the raid, and I cast 1/3 more spells by multi bind but he out parsed me as most mine seem to hit when the tank was at full or very near it. Watching this over many raids has made me start to look at the multi bind as only when I am the only healer on a tank, and to use other stuff when I have others healing too, as a combination works much better than 10 people mindlessly pressing one button to heal. there is merit to both, but practice is showing a combination to be the best. My multi bind is set up remedy > intervention > renewal > entervention > renewal > light, and I can tell you too cast a few lights, I changed out the 14th/15th to a light as I was never seeing 14th/15th actually casting and there was a lag in there before remedy would recast. Now I don't own TDS on that account, and with 2 remedies I would prob take light out, and it might be different.
With the improvements to mez and pulling tools over the years, healing has been the last of the full on 'art of playing.' When we did our switch over to multi-bind, I encouraged each cleric to give it a try and decide, letting the choice be their own. Most have strongly embraced it, a couple didn't, but I still encourage them to use their guts to tell when to bind spam and when to feel heal. Having a team built with mb'ers and some 'artist' feel healers is good, even if that has to come from druids. Mugs
I have seen his cast parse, he's just as active as I am, I have exactly zero issues with the other clerics I raid with.
Everyone knows that using a multibind doesn't invalidate the use of judgement, right? Like, I guess it has to be said if no one has, but the whole point of a multibind is to use better spells, not to throw "feel" or whatever out the window. If dude's a stone master at knowing when to land a spell two seconds out, then getting to land that heal in 0.5/0.75seconds ought to make him Jesus walkin'. The only thing a multibind does is let multiple spell gems stitch their cooldowns together to act like one much better spell. No fancy ITC/Glorious/Intra/Contra techniques or whatever are necessary, just the same hitting of a button, whenever Jesus would hit that button, leads to a better spell being cast instead of Light, and then Jesus can cast another whole spell!
There are so many ways to get mana back that to me, it's hard to justify saving QM for another cleric. Horn of unity, paragon, mod rods, the other clerics own qm and vp, etc... When you say you are healing 3 mts, 3 sks, 3 clerics, a pally or 2, and your group, is that all at once? That just seems excessive. Is no one splashing? What about your celestial regen rotation? Shaman AE heals? SKs and paladins can heal themselves also so if they arent actively tanking you shouldn't need to do too much for them. Heal parses mean nothing in a vacuum...they are a tool to compare who is doing what. If you are healing for 40 million but someone else is healing for 8 million...I don't want to hear anything about buffing rezzing or efficiency...they simply aren't contributing what they could be. There are ways to manipulate the heal parse in your favor yes but at the end of the day it gives a pretty good guide as to who was doing what. I keep seeing things about how things are different in the mid tier guilds vs the high end guilds and I can't help but wonder if any of that is the preponderance of sub par healing tactics.
Yes, that's all at once. As was stated before, we usually don't have enough healers, I've even been on a raid where we only had 2 clerics. And yet, we keep winning. Most of the time if we do wipe, it's due to new dps not following directions, not healing. All of our clerics have a different heal style, and they seem to compliment each other, filling in gaps in each other's weave, which was the point of my first post. I'm not gonna argue any further about mana conservation, I save my QM for others because sometimes it's needed, maybe on a cleric, maybe on a paly, maybe on my favorite wizard who went down just before burn time. Sk and paly can heal themselves, but sometimes they need more, so they need to be on my window. The whole point of this thread is that there are other ways of doing things other than McHealing. If no one else want to try anything different, that's their business, but I'm certainly not gonna stop trying new things and discussing them here simply because others think there's only one way it should be done.
Sheaffer I'm the one who said things are different in mid tier and I even acknowledged its because of, like DPS, etc. you have a couple rockstars a lot of average and some subpar healers. So nothing new there. I posted a HUGE list of things I've tried in my guild to pick up skill level, use tips, etc. Most of it goes on deaf ears but I'm always excited when I at least see someone willing to try it out or something like it. Like Roxx, I almost never need my Vets or QM so I do actively use QM on someone else who needs it much more. Why waste it. I have other tools to use if things start to get out of hand. Sanctuary, divine peace, BDA, CDA, on top of other heal/movement tactics where I might be in danger. And that's with an often manual rotation of 2 remedies, intervention, 2 remedies, renewal #2, 2 remedies, renewal #2 and spell yaulp when my audio trigger tells me its worn off. With a bunch of group heals, single target elixirs, group elixirs thrown into the mix on top of being a self-appointed utility cleric who always makes sure tanks have AI, DI and SB before their tanking turn or each new phase of the raid.
