Malo clickie?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Jordis, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Jordis Augur

    Tash clickies abound in the game at nearly all levels. That's great, but as an enchanter I don't really need a tash clickie. Why isn't there a malo clickie for those of us with Tash while other classes that have additional debuffs can get tash? The few that I have found are Mage only.
  2. Ueuill Elder

    It's a fair point. And one that I (and other Enchanters) have complained about years ago. I'm guessing that the cumulative effects of Tash and Malo would make charming still easier. But now that they seem to be neutering charm by making it easier and easier (and less effective), why not?

    And as long as they keep doing this, I will not stop complaining about it: I'm tired of my abilities being farmed out, particularly while we get nothing in return.
  3. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    You need to look at the big picture. It seems to me like you're saying "Now that we've started down the wrong path, let's go further, faster."

    I get that a Malo clicky would be fair, and not game-breaking, but wouldn't it be better to seek improvement in other, more Enchanter-like areas?

    And do we want Charm to be easier, and thus weaker, or would it better to make charm more dangerous and powerful? I personally prefer the latter.

    Do we ever lose out on groups or raids because of Tash clickies?
  4. Ueuill Elder

    The point I'm making about Charm is that you don't have a choice as to what direction it goes in. Charm has gotten easier and easier and we have more and more tools to prevent/deal with broken charms. Plus the stronger nukes seem to suggest that Charm is not going to be the big deal that it once was.
  5. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    And what would this portend for future versions of Tash? Will they figure we have the Malo clicky, and so make mobs that much more resistant so we have to do both to get the same result?
  6. Ueuill Elder

    Isn't that what every ability in the game does? We don't buy AAs to make us more resilient so that we're better able to stand up to level appropriate mobs. The AAs that increase our mitigation only allow us to keep pace. Without them, we'd be one-shotted...just like we weren't at lower levels when faced with level appropriate mobs. The stats on our gear just goes up and up and up...without regard to the fact that they're now at absurd levels. With all these godlike stats, we should be owning mobs our own level by barely lifting a finger But we're not. The stats on gear only allows us to "break even." Nothing more.

    Your crit AAs don't increase your relative DPS against mobs of your own level. It only allows you to break even and have the same relative DPS against level appropriate mobs that you had at lower levels.

    Besides, if you're charming in a group, wouldn't the assumption be that someone is maloing your pet for you already? Seems to me that giving us a malo clickie will only allow a solo Enchanter to do what is already being done with an Enchanter who charms in a group.

    Furthermore, if they're getting Tash clickies, then it seems to me that the Devs are already increasing the mobs MR, because now a Magician, for instance, can both Tash and Malo a mob.
  7. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    Ueuill, you don't know because you're not maxxed out, but at max level with all the charm and rune AAs, you don't need Malo to make charm easier. Charmed pets pose little-to-no threat to the Enchanter. Tash is sufficient for our purposes. Charm generally lasts a sufficient duration when just Tash is applied.

    Having to obtain and use a clicky Malo item to retain the status quo would be a nerf, not a buff.
  8. Sancho Elder

    MR debuff totem is a good fill in for malo I find. Especially for stationary group camps or charm swarming where you don't move a lot. I just wish I had the Rk III =/.
  9. RPoo Augur

    " Will they figure we have the Malo clicky, and so make mobs that much more resistant so we have to do both to get the same result? "
    "Furthermore, if they're getting Tash clickies, then it seems to me that the Devs are already increasing the mobs MR, because now a Magician, for instance, can both Tash and Malo a mob."
    Point!
    Random_Enchanter likes this.
  10. Ueuill Elder

    As I said before, a Magician with a Tash clickie can both Tash and Malo a mob. We can only Tash. A malo clickie would not maintain the status quo. It would allow us to attain it.
  11. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    You're mistaken. The Tash clicky is far weaker than spell Tash. Regardless, spell Tash is almost binary. If it's tashed, spells pretty much just don't get resisted. More would be of little-to-no benefit, except to other members of the group who might take advantage of the other resistances Malo works on, and to charm which presumably would be even more consistent than it already is, but as I said, that'd again be working at cross-purposes with making charmed pets stronger.

    I was referring to the status quo of Enchanter spells landing consistently after just spell Tash, and not the relative balance of power between Magicians and Enchanters.
  12. Vance Vargson Lorekeeper

    Fact is other classes get significant use out of the tash clicky and they were not nerfed. Necros didn't get their magic based snares, DoTs, and Lifetaps, and charm nerfed did they? Did bards get highsun, mez and charm nerfed? Bards are probably the biggest example because they are pullers so they only have their own debuffs to help with pulling. You can bet Howl of Tashan helps them tremendously with resists on Highsun. Magicians don't get quite as much help but they do have resistible malo and magic based nukes.

    It's like enchanters are so used to being nerfed that we don't want to ask for anything for fear of giving an excuse to the devs to nerf us more. Why are we so afraid to ask for something especially since our own abilities are farmed off and the classes that got them received zero penalty or nerfage for it? Why should we receive a nerf if other classes didn't?

    I think as someone else pointed out, malo is a spell that is cast by two classes, shaman and magicians. In a group situation there's a not too bad chance that you'll end up grouping with one of them who can cast the debuff for you. Do the devs take that into account when figuring resists? Remember that any clicky we would receive would be a low level version of malo and not a current spell. If content is already balanced around the higher powered spells cast by lvl 100 players, I seriously doubt a level 60 spell is going to cause balance issues.

    Remember that as enchanters, we are casting mez and stun on mobs before they are properly debuffed. A clicky would not help us much in our primary role of CC. It wouldn't be a big deal to make charm or root a little less likely to break. As our nukes and DoTs are chromatic, a malo clicky may help us more in some situations then tash with resists. It's not a huge deal and just goes to fairness that we get something in return for getting something farmed away.

    Honestly I kind of blame Ngreth for a lot of the farming away of enchanter abilities since he was tradeskill and item dev during much of that time. Bottling up our buffs, (haste, clarity, resonant tonics, etc.), and items such as Orb of Tishan were his doing. He was a nice guy and all but I really didn't appreciate him for that. In fact he said straight up in a forum post when I complained and asked for a malo clicky in compensation that we do not have to be compensated for abilities given to other classes. That's when I quit EQ and only came back April/May this year.
    Ueuill, Jordis and RPoo like this.
  13. Jordis Augur

    Why does everything concerning enchanters always end up with Charming? We're expected to do debuffs, everyone can cast tash if they farm any of the many tash clickies. Melee, priests or casters...doesn't make a difference. Having both available gives you an edge on over-coming resistance, and it seems reasonable to share it out. As you said, it's not game-breaking, it's fair and for more than the enchanter class. I am talking about an IN-GAME clickie, not one from LoN or the Marketplace.

    There's no reason there shouldn't be a Malo clickie available on the same basis at the Tash. Have I lost groups? It's hard to tell, most of the people that I know that go to the effort of getting a 'tash stick" seem to solo for the most part. I don't remember anyone asking me to a group to "tash" for them, but they do expect it, even if they can cast Malo. Do we need malo clickies on raids? Well, ask the people s that think that they are helping by using their tash clickies to hit the mobs and "help" the enchanters on raids.

    Does it help? Marginally, it's nice if you can get one in before the enchanters (if you have nothing better to be doing). It's not a big deal, no bigger than the enchanter slowing til the shaman can hit it with a better version of slow. Resistances are up, tash and malo tend to work well together.

    Tash clickies go way way back in the game, usable by various classes. Malo clickies would be welcome by the same people that have the tash clickies I would think. Debuffs are debuffs, and while the spells are usually at a higher level than the clickie version, they're something that can improve the quality of game play. Obviously we wouldn't get any high level versions of malo, but it can hurt.

    What still makes me mad months later is that EQ put into the game a Cripple clickie, usable by melee only. Okay, it was a rare drop, I don't know if it ever did, but it is totally unreasonable to give melee alone caster debuffs.
  14. Jordis Augur


    They've already done that.
  15. Ueuill Elder

    Nope.

    Yes, it's a lower level version of Tash. So, what? The Malo clicky could be a lower level version of spell Malo.

    Making up garbage is not helping your argument.

    Poppycock. The MR debuff (which is greater on Malo) stacks with Tash. And that would results in fewer charm breaks, your nonsense about Tash being binary notwithstanding.

    I was referring to the status quo of Enchanter spells landing consistently after just spell Tash, and not the relative balance of power between Magicians and Enchanters.[/quote]
  16. Random_Enchanter Augur

    the general line of though is 'if we DO get a malo clickie then ALL mobs in ALL zones will have there resitances raised such that to see your same current preformance you would REQUIRE the malo clicky.

    That said, Charm itself is almost never outright resisted. and EXTREMLY rarely does it break before the timer is up with tash on a mob. at least at lv 100. I'v been fooling around with a heroic enchanter fresh outta the gate and after tashed the charmed mob still breaks charm EXTREMLY rarely. I'd say its a function of your level and AA's that is causing you to see a lot of early charm breaks based on this.
    Qest T. Silverclaw likes this.
  17. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    Considering your Enchanter wasn't even level 65 a month ago, and your highest level was 90, I will agree that one of us is "making up garbage," but I'll let the reader decide who that probably is.

    I don't disagree that this theoretical Malo clicky would help with Charm. My problem is that balance is based mostly on risk vs. reward, so by reducing what little risks we take when we Charm, the rewards must be reduced as well to maintain balance, no?

    I don't see myself even using a Malo clicky much if I owned one except upon my charmed pet, presuming it had a casting time. On raids, it's expected that there will be a player to cast the full version of the spell, and in groups, it's not worth doing for an Enchanter since Tash, at level 100+, is sufficient.
  18. Vance Vargson Lorekeeper

    You're logic is incorrect. It's impossible to debate with you because you have this idea that if enchanters are given something, then that means they have to be nerfed in some way. I think it's mainly because the enchanter class has been nerfed so much that many enchanters like you have a version of battered wife syndrome where you think that the class somehow deserves to be nerfed and never given any kind of boost without getting a nerf in return.

    Let me tell you, other classes get boosts all the time without getting nerfed in return. Bards got tash from enchanters and didn't get nerfed. Necros and Wizards got tash and didn't get nerfed in return. Magicians who also have malo got tash and they didn't get nerfed in return. Why? Why do you think Enchanters are the special case that deserves to get nerfed whenever they get something? What makes Enchanters so special that they absolutely have to be treated worse than any other class in the game? That other classes don't have to have abilities balanced around a clicky tash item and yet enchanters, being so special, must be balanced around a possible clicky malo. It just doesn't make sense.

    I know that battered enchanter syndrome is very real and I know it is hard for you to see that the enchanter class deserves more but it does, and so do you. You are worthy and don't let the Devs convince you that you aren't. It's time to begin the healing process and to start to ask for boosts to the class without expecting a beating in return. So let's start by asking for a malo clicky. We deserve it for having our abilities farmed out.
    Jordis, Silv and Qest T. Silverclaw like this.
  19. Silv Augur

    Vance it's nothing new for some to think that any gain results in an equal but negative loss. Kindof like some law of physics or something. How does that famous phrase go? Oh, right, we're talking about a video game.

    I'm all for a malo click. The only reason is because raid Mages are too busy trying to top the parse to cast it and Shaman... well, I'm not sure what Shaman are doing that they can't have one cast it on every mob. This of course is from a raid standpoint.

    I box a Mage so I just use the nuke+malo combo spell or twist in the AA. Since I nuke with a druid too I prefer real Malo since it gives the +% Magic damage bonus.

    While we're on the topic... how did Malo and Skin to Seedlings get to keep % based damage mods but not tash? Oops... :rolleyes:
    Jordis likes this.
  20. Qest T. Silverclaw Augur

    I believe that the developers believe that the classes are fairly-well balanced. Otherwise, they'd work on fixing it, as I believe they're aware that class balance is among the most important aspects of the game.

    Now, when a class comes together to demand something in one voice and gets it, it's a almost always a boost with no downside...at the time. When new expansions come, they reconsider the state of class balance and, possibly over the course of more than one expansion, the class that got the boost is brought back into line.

    Thus, I believe we should carefully consider what we ask for lest we get pushed in the wrong direction and find them creating content with lots of immunity flags against our spells, and our bread and butter spells nerfed.

    I don't think we should demand an almost entirely useless trinket out of jealousy or spite, but rather ask for what we actually want and need.