What I'd most like is to see how long the used to live against a mob. It wouldn't be conclusive, but if I tried 10 RS pets (or 20 or 30, the number is immaterial), I'd get some idea for how long they live. I can't check on test (no computer access) but I'm guessing they aren't living 12 seconds. That's all that it really comes down to - can it off tank an add long enough to recast the spell.
Knowing that RS pets used to never take hits for max (or DIs 18, or 19 for that matter) and higher rate of minimum hits - it's undoubtable that RS pets will now not be lasting as long. By how much shorter (they last) at this point is anyone's guess. Before the patch, with steady predictable damage intake you could easily come up with an average length of survival and the numbers any given pet would not be so different from pet to pet. Now that pets are more subject to spikes - if one pet lasts 11 seconds, the next may very well last only 5 seconds. That's the luck of the draw with the random number generator.
This doesn't answer the question. Survive what? A light blue mob from three expansions ago? Random see-invis add while running through a zone? Over-agroing your group's tank? Raid bosses? This simply won't do, either. I guess common sense isn't so common.
Roshan, you are trying to sugar coat the pet nerf with dps increases for pets? What about necro pets where we got nerfs only and no buffs to any of our pet dps? What about defining the role of the rogue pet a little better because it only does about 190 more dps (including backstab damage) than the warrior pet. Why is the Necro swarm pet spell getting a dps nerf when this spell is only used in groups, and the group necro is already hurting badly? The grouping necro only really has swarm pets and swift dots for group dps. My Necro is pathetic in groups, yet you are taking away a large portion of his soloability. My pet was dieing to dark blues on test server while moloing. FIX MY PETS PLEASE!
Then they've been broken since inception IMO. You quote your dps pet as being able to outtank the best player tank and think that is right? haha. What does solo class mean here? A class capable of doing things that other people need to get a group to do? Excuse me while I cry a little for your loss. Mages are a "solo class" simply because they have dps, tanking and healing all rolled into one. I don't actually believe anyone ever designed one class to be deliberately the most powerful one. Much like they didn't design monks to be pullers. It just happened that some skill combos ended up powerful, but I don't see this as a right that has to be kept. Once powerful ALWAYS powerful? Err nope, that's not the way EQ works. Never has. Mages are the cornerstone of certain types of group though - the non-melee caster setup. That's fine, but now we have mercs they should be tuned around mercs too. All the melee really love mercs! If you kill off mercs you kill off over 50% of the groups out there. If mercs were removed you'd see a mass exodus from EQ because put simply there aren't enough players wanting to do the tanking and healing roles. It's not all about you, but the game as a whole. The game YOU like to play also has other classes playing it too, and if you remove their ability to play then it harms you too. The converse is true too of course; if we make it so mages can't play the game then it harms it for the rest of us. I don't think anyone want mages to be a useless class, or necros, or beastlords, or chanters, etc. However that doesn't mean nothing can ever be tuned. So what's the happy comprimise here? IMO it is: 1) Reduce pet mitigation, increase avoidance (ie make them a bit more spikey in damage so less safe). 2) Increase the power of healer mercs, helping both pet owners and also melee who cannot find a real healer. Win/win situation. I've seen this before, even in a raid. We had a tactic for one encounter of standing back and letting the pets tank *as it was easier* on that particular boss. Not accidental, but a deliberate tactic. When PoWar went live we also regularly used to let the enchanter tank the berserker mobs as it was easier to heal them than a real tank. lol. And yes, the devs noticed that behaviour wasn't right too and nerfed the runes. Generally though I agree that you won't see pets taking over the role of real tanks due to the downside that it makes half of your player base worthless (melee). [/quote]
I'll say it one last time. The Player base would not be anywhere near as "offended" by the "pet mitigation thingie" if the friggin Tank Mercs could tank "somewhat" like a tank can tank. Mine is max AA and AC gear and I can out-tank the bastich - still!! Group tanks are scarce as hell. Those that don't wanna play a pet caster class should also have good options. No need to get heavy handed with that nerf bat (yet again!) Better to bring something UP than to nerf a huge sector of the player base. -W
As per usual - The team does something unexpectedly (accidentally or otherwise) and the the CR/PR guy has to come along with the pooper-scooper and try to clean it up retroactively. I feel for you Roshen. It's things like this that give whole "more openness" campaign, a real problem passing the old "smell test". -Rat
This error hasn't existed since 2007. This error was probably more like a slow creep based on the AC calculation thread data. Over time, ac and mitigation bonuses slowly moved higher than probably expected. Then, we get someone to parse the DI spread and note that it is skewed fairly low. If you have been playing since 2007, you'd know that the DI spread was certainly not always that low. It is also a logical flaw to think a long existing error should be left in; sometimes it is necessary and sometimes it is not. This is one of those cases, unfortunately, the development team sees as something that can't be left in and must be changed. Many people are jealous or feel like classes should not be able to solo and that has always been a mage's niche along with necro. These voices are getting louder and more numerous every day. And, yes, encroaching on that ability will make many people quit as it has in the past. I, for one, am one of the many who chose mage specifically for the ability to solo; I needed the ability to play and quit at a whim while still advancing my character. I too am concerned about recent developments and the new hivemind regarding our class.
That's exactly what a mage is. However, those of you who don't have a clue and think that mages can walk up to any named (solo) and go to town with the best tanking, best dps and best healing obviously know nothing about mages. Mage heals are pathetic. Runes have been nerfed. A mage working to keep pet alive could not go offensive as you so put it. Quit mixing up solo with molo. What made mages self-sustaining somewhat is the fact that mercs were put into the game. That gave pet classes the ability to go fully offensive and somewhat neglect their pet as the healer merc heals it. Now I don't expect mercs to ever be removed; but I don't expect several classes to be butchered because of something they put in game either.
Why yes. On Friday I had the time to do a little testing and 1 light blue mob from 3 expansions back (Alarans in Valley) tore up my air pet; however I could keep it healed by myself. 2 light blue mobs and it was touch and go and I had to focus on defense, meaning negligible offense. 3 light blue mobs and I had to chain heal using my cleric. RS is an entirely different story and even worse hit. On 1 light blue mob, an RS lasted on average just over 12 secs, which is the min refresh of the spell itself. 2 light blue mobs tore up RS on average in just under 7 secs, ~ half the recast timer. That is just pathetic and wont do at all. If I can't get a RS to last more than 1/4 th its total duration against light blue mobs 3 expansions back, what use is it? Oh don't be silly. Of course I don't expect mercs to be removed, but that doesn't mean they are not the problem. Healing mercs made pet classes self sustaining and able to do things they couldn't before. But mercs did that for all classes. Some just benefited more than others; but that doesn't mean they should butcher all pet classes because of something they put in the game.
Well, VoA is 2 expansions back. 3 back would be HoT. Also, I wouldn't equate "survive" with "able to kill by myself". A group geared tank might only be intended to survive a group named for 1-3 minutes, and that's with external healing. So while I can certainly tank 3-expansion back mobs (e.g. trash in Sanctum Somnium) with a heal merc, I'm not so sure I'd be able to solo 3-4 mob multi-pulls of them without heals. 7 seconds is plenty of time for a tank/CC to pick up a mob, or (if you're actually solo) to channel off a fade or gate.
Did I pay extra for an expansion no one else got? CotF, RoF, VoA, think thats still the third expansion back.
Regardless of how far back VoA is, the RS pet has never been our primary tool to allow us to gate. CoN and fades fill that role much more adequately. The RS pet has always been a capable off tank or a large DPS spell. My healer merc can also off tank for me to gate or for a tank to grab the mob, but it's nowhere near its primary purpose. At this point the RS pet changes are DPS crippling, regardless of tanking ability.
DO YOUR CHANGES, BUT IF THIS BECOME A USING A MAGE PET, I WILL NO LONGER PAY ANYMORE SUBSCRIPTIONS ON MAGE ACCOUNT. SO UP TO YOU: YOU DO INSATISFACTION TO THE CUSTOMERS, YOU LOSE MONEY ON YOUR BUSSINES.
People that are desperately clinging to their solo-ability, and people that are jealous of that solo-ability...these emotions will continue to rise as a function of a dwindling population, as time goes on. No matter who is doing the solo'ing
This so-called error has existed since EXACTLY 2007. I posted excel spreadsheets of the data for AC and HP of the EM series which were provided by the devs at the time. The graphs were linear for each pet rising substantially for each level of EM. The devs openly provided this data. They *wanted* the pets to perform the way they did because of the outcry of the previous years. Rytan used to handle the pets and when that was turned over the pets began to change. I know this because I was part of the beta team hollering and making a general nuisance of myself until we finally got some traction. As far as the bonuses that factored in as AAs, that is a different story, but the in toto way that these fixes are being done is not the considered way it was advertised on the CRT forum as you mention, but done in just the opposite fashion. That is - WITH STEALTH. The nicest way to characterize that is to call it disingenuous. I would use a stronger term but it would be axed by the filter. It was only numerous word-of-mouth clamoring by Mages noticing the difference that brought out the dev admission, despite your Mage compendium assertion of the opposite. When handfuls and handfuls of Mages are saying the same thing, you really should listen, as CRT. As for the "logical flaw" you assert, the logical flaw is to say that a long-standing FACT of the game existing for 7+ years is an error. That is where the real error lies. I have watched CRTs for years succumbing to the "logic" of decisions like this and it angers me. As an advocate for the class, instead of harrumphing about "flaws and errors of logic" you should be banging the drum for the class in a way that keeps our pets robust, instead of surrendering and sighing. Stand up, man. Vorograth, you are a good CRT, a good speaker, and passionate about this class. I mostly admire what you say. But you're dead wrong about this.
Am I reading this right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. As I read a prior post regarding Sturdy Companion, it was deemed to add "too powerful" an effect to the pet's AC. So, if you have not included the Sturdy Companion changes in the latest "stealth" nerf, does that mean that the pets will be even weaker than they are now when the weaker Sturdy Companion changes are implemented? All this gesticulating, haranguing, arguing and speculation has my head swimming. The thing I want to know is, Will I still be able to make substantial progress in non-raid content with my pet and my merc? This has been my playstyle for years. If it goes away, I'm doomed in EQ.
Yes, pets are even weaker on Test, where the next set of changes are in effect. "Substantial progress" is a subjective term, so that's hard to say. You should be ok doing single dark blues. Anything more than that depends on how they adjust the next set of nerfs. Don't rely on hearsay; get on Test, try it out, and provide feedback before it's too late.
