For the love of all that is melee, remove the slow from rez effects

I'd like to not be complete crap for over four minutes when I die on a raid.

I'd personally go the other direction. Offer hardcore versions of raid instances where whenever anyone dies, it's over, or at least no rezzing back into the ongoing encounter.

If they had a difficulty slider, Rouan could select Easy Mode and ignore rez effects, etc. Then everyone could be happy with the difficulty.

The loot could even remain the same, but harder modes offer more drops/currency ala LDoN.

It needs to be toned down a bit if it's the match the impact of rez effect for casters.

Edit: or tune caster effect up higher, if you want hard mode

Hey at least we still have rest!

Ohh, I think I see now.

Why does it matter? Unless guilds are dumping melees for casters due to rez effects, the only important measure is "Did you win the event?" Whether you, individually, ended up out of the fight for 4 mins isn't very important. They should want you for what you do, and be understanding when they get you killed that you can't do what you'd otherwise be doing.

Have you tried a Miniature Horn of Unity rotation?

I don't think that's quite what he means.

I personally don't care as a tank but playing devils advocate here is how I see it

A caster -
Get rez,
Get Mana (through one of many techniques),
Get Spell haste buff + Self Buffs + Auras/Spells
Nuke at the same speed as you did before for the same amount. (Excluding discs)

A Melee
Get Rez,
Get Endurance through Rest/horn,
Get Haste + Myriad of other buffs + Self buffs + Auras/Spells
Stay hitting slower and lower than unbuffed until rez effects wear off. (Excluding discs)


I can see where Rouan is coming from and that the effects should be equal in effect and not be harsher on one class or another (as much as possible) but I dont expect anything to change as nothing has changed in several years with regards ot rez effects.

Could always add spellslow and maxspelldmg limiter to casters as an equalizer.

Something you never want to do in a game is take away the fear of dying.

This although it would be nice, would drastically unbalance the melee side of the game. The ways casters can get mana back after dying are limited and often can't be done more than once. Melee on the other hand always have a weapon to swing, and after hitting rest can almost always do at minimum 'respectable' dps after dying.

I think the solution is simply to find more/better ways to not die.

Don't die. Problem solved.

Leave the penalties.

From one extreme to another i'd say...
4mins is too long, and no slow would be too easy.

Melee have it more difficult than staying at range and nuking, since i saw someone mentioning "find ways to die less"..they also need to find new mobs and the main assists target, while a caster can again start from where he stands usually.
Obviously you will die less if you don't have to run into Rampage and all the other crap that might happen close to mobs, and have time to look at what's going on while nuking.
Melee dps is blooming in the form of rogues just lately, before that almost every Dps- Alt i saw was Wiz/Mage/Necro and it's not hard to guess why.

Rez effects are harsher on melee because if we recuperate just as fast as casters, we could just zerg raids by throwing melee bodies over and over at the target while non-melee did their business. These effects harken back to a day when endurance was stamina and there was no resting or tons of mana regen items or effects, so it was evenly debilitating to everyone.

But don't expect any sympathy here. Already a few "don't die" from raid-geared players and "you want EZmode" kneejerk reaction.

EDIT: editing comments still not working properly. Seriously, SOE, seriously.

The real issue is that "Rez Effect Slow" was put into an entirely differently balanced EQ.

It was pre Mana back methods for casters and pre-Rest for Melee.

At the present, it no longer feels quite balanced in 2014 EQ.

I would suggest a partial change, rather than a complete change, reduce it, don't remove it.
((Because without it at all, then I think balance between amount of recovery reswinging + rest beats the amount of recovery a caster gets)

Possible Solution:
Change the Slow to a Negative Hundred Hands effect. In both cases you'd get a reduction of swing speed and dps.

BUT, Negative Hundred Hand's effect wouldn't block Haste from taking effect the way a slow does.

Though I'm not 100% sure how HH effects stack and whether any negative HH would block completely positive HH effects or if they would stack addition wise. -40HH & +20 HH equals -20 HH or -40 HH?

If it's the latter it would effect classes with HH like monks more than melee without like Rangers
but even then a Negative HH effect would be smaller than current status quo of a slow that not only slows swing speed but prevents haste.

Don't die on raids then.

Let me guess. Argin-Hiz imps?

Every time a raid comes along that requires melee paying attention rather than mindlessly whacking the mobs, we have these threads about rez effects popping up. Then they die off as people discover how to avoid dying there. I'm still smiling at the 'unavoidable' AE rampage on Vulak.

Posts like Rouan's would work better if instead of saying,

"Remove rez effects because it is something melee have to deal with and casters do not"

He were to say,

"Remove rez effects because it is something melee have to deal with and casters do not. Also remove focus decay as it is something casters have to deal with and melee do not."

Then, instead of causing bickering, you at least appear to want to equalize things.

I wonder if there is a belief among certain players that a caster, immediately after a rez, can go from zero to 40% mana in a couple seconds every time. This is not necessarily true.

Take me. As a magician I can immediately get mana back by doing the following (note numbers and percentages are going off top of my head and could be wrong, am at work on my phone)-

1. Mod rod, about 8% of mana pool, every 5 minutes
2. Self mod rod, about 5% of mana pool, every 5 minutes
3. Mana reserve, about 12% of mana pool, every 20 minutes
4. Thaumatise Pet, maybe 3% of mana pool, every 3 minutes
5. Horn click, maybe 3-5% of mana pool, every 10 minutes

Now that looks awesome, I know. Until you see the every x minutes part. And you realize that if I die, use Mana Reserve and both mod rods, and then die within 45 seconds and get an immediate rez... I am kinda out of luck. All my stuff is down, and I am waiting 3+ minutes to do something. And while a melee can still be semi productive, and a tank can hit Rest and a disc (if available) and do some tanking... I cannot do anything except summon a fire pet and have it do a 16k DD spell every six seconds.

I am not anti melee, nor am I anti rez effects being changed. I just want to refute a philosophy that all casters can get a rez and go right back to normal DPS weaves.

Death should have some consequences. If you raid, than you are taking greater risk for greater reward and there should be some consequences for when you fail, your healers fail or you just get unlucky. That is part of what makes raiding the beast that it is. Considering how fast the turn around is from wipes or single deaths, well, how much more stream lined does it need to be? If anything, give some kind of a long recharge time spell to a cleric or whatever priest to expunge the rezz effects or utilize what is already there and receive a divine rezz or just get a call and be rezzed later. At least with a call you get some mana/endo to work with. I can't remember if there is a true rezz hangover or not with a call but it gets tanks back in the fray quicker than with true rezzes. There are also the banner and fellowship fires next to the Instance NPC. Now none of this works well with just throwing bodies at a target until it dies, but if you have to do that than dumbing down rezz effects is still not going to give you the extra mileage to consistently win. Sorry.

Bottom line: Work with your priests and this can be mitigated.

Think Rouan is just trying to make a comparison, not cause quarrels to begin between casters and melee. The contrast between caster effectiveness versus melee effectiveness after ress is quite large as things stand now, I certainly wouldn't want to be a melee based dps type after a ress in this game

I used to (when I could get away with it) go to bind and just cast my clickies/poisons etc and then sit on my can in the GH when I died and than banner back after I got some endo. Sometimes I would use it as an excuse to use the bathroom or get a fresh beer too. I typically would refuse rezzes since a freshly rezzed rogue is as worthless as boobies on a boar. Yes, there is Rest but whats the point when you do crap dps and can one rounded instantly? All you do is waste a "Rest" triggering and put it on refresh. Waiting a few minutes and then getting back to raid with no rezz usually is worth it in the long run.

It really motivated me to try my best to not die.

I just wish they'd implement a General AA to reduce and eventually get rid of the rez effects... but make it expensive as hell. I mean the final rank should be 100 AA.

This isn't a melee vs. caster debate, the issue is it takes too long for a melee player that gets killed to get back into the action able to contribute in a meaningful way. There isn't a way to negate the res timer for a melee player, and they have less avenues to regenerate stamina.

In addition, melee range fighting is always more fraught with dangers with AE damage effects that are inherent to close proximity fighting (some overcome by skill others unavoidable). Its seems extremely unfair to take a group of players and require them to take higher risks with greater penalties for death that were implemented to fix an imbalance 15 years ago that doesn't exist today.

Ruven