DPS increases in last patch

Headshoting the entire Convorteum raid for shawls is another example. The ranger's at 1 million damage over an entire raid that's only 1 expansion past, better post parses to get them nerfed! Is the equivalent of the witch-hunting going on atm. It's nowhere near as bad, rogues got a boost...they're ahead of everyone in almost every situation, who's to say that wasn't the intended goal? They still aren't broken unless they continue to get things like this rampage disc at level 105 ontop of what they already have.

The pendulum swung again and landed on rogue this round, the cycle of life and death continues.

I'm a main raiding berserker, and quite frankly, HAPPY to see the rogues get a boost in DPS. In the scheme of raiding, I don't care which DPS class gets a boost. My happiness comes from being able to clear more events quicker and getting more targets in on our raid nights. If rogue AOEs nets 2-3 more targets (or attempts on a new event) over the course of the raid days, great!

I know what dps is, what I'm saying is that people say Rogues do 350k dps, not Rogues can do 100k dps to several mobs at once. You can say the total damage a class did on a raid, but it's misleading and people take its as a rogue can do 300k dps against a named or single target. It just gets generalized that a number that means nothing more than how many adds there were to hit, becomes how much damage a rogue can out out against a single mob. I'll just root rot a ton of mobs and claim I can do a million dps. When I'm doing 100k dps but to multiple mobs at once. It's just a less variable baseline. ,

I'll use Turn Undead on one of the spirit adds from WK1 and tank it myself until the rest of the DPS arrives to finish it off. That doesn't make me a tank, however.

It's like arguing with a theist at this point, circular and pointless.

You are funny Brogett. Your over hear justifying everything while you're over in the pet threads advocating decreases in power. You also claim similar reasons of defense to this new found increase of power that you criticized in years past when used in defense of that power increase. Everyone should be use to powered swings. You can drop the act of neutrality when you're just like most people and just care about your class.

I do think that rog should be able to match ber on burst, but actually if you read what I've posted here you'll see I have already said my expectation was the stacking issues of rampage would be addressed at the same time as boosting rogues, so berserkers and rogues would get balanced in the middle; not boosting rogues to also be overpowered compared to wiz burns. I'm not at all trying to defend rampage; IMO it shouldn't boost primary target and should be an AoE only abilitiy. I even took this up with the devs during beta. My stance has never changed on that.

Just to set the record straight on pets (and my one and only post on it in this thread), I've already publically posted that pets need *tuning* but that doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in absolute power. IMO mitigation should be lower than raid wars, but it can be compensated for by bettering self healing from pet owners. The effect could be tuned such that it won't be significant for group play, but will prevent pets from scaling up too well when backed up by a raids worth of clerics.

Besides, having one view on one class and another view on another class isn't at all hypocritical. Different classes merit different views!

Jesus, I agree with Brogett and Elidroth for once. Queue curtains...life dim....no hope. Can't....breathe..............

The sad joke of this is burst aside a top teir rogue should always beat a berserker in the overall before that last patch on pretty much any raid that's longer than 5 mins but most didn't because they were lazy or didn't take advantage of how they can essentially do 2 full burns it a lot of events that monks/bers cant do to reuse timers. The few buffs you guys got on top of the AE rampage was like the boost a whole expansion would normally give to a class that's the underdog to help them compete. I told and tried to convince Elidroth of this and that if he didn't up peoples sustained in turn it was going to be a lot of problems but the already top melee class was in line for buffs cause of whatever reason or whatever garbage parses people feed him or subpar rogues out their who don't realize that they are tell him( not implying that you are one of those btw ). All classes have the people who don't play well and just complain to the devs for buffs instead of asking around or trying new stuff maybe researching some disc spell infos to see if some different stacking/burn orders etc might help.

I personally would rather have the 10k+ to sustained rogues have over a berserker than thinking rogues should match how good we burn for about 90 secs while get only another 1-2kdps increase in return. You can't really think a rogue should match a berserker's burn and then have the shortest reuse on your burns the longest burns and the greatest sustained of the three melees when you take that stuff into account and then still have less endurance issues than a berserker. I would love to have my cake and eat it too.

At the very least the rampage disc needs to have its reuse doubled to fall in line with monks/berserker. Other balance Issues aside randomly giving a class the best dps boosting skill that stacks with everything and then giving it the shortest reuse is going to introduce some issues from that alone. I still personally don't think rogues needed or should of gotten rampage but that's just me and they have it now but the question is do you buff others or nerf rogues to address this I hope its the former so we can get some issues with other classes have that haven't been dealt with much less acknowledged officially for quite awhile.

I personally strive for balance but that's never been a thing really in Everquest and it probably never will be but I do know the frustration from the lack of it will be the eventual reason for me to quit one day.

Rogues with boost is still behind wiz sustained DPS and competitive vs others. Stop watching bers/rog only look around you. Nerfing rog wont help bers it will just make melees subpar dps. Bers sustained is not a rog problem. Rog sustained even better than bers is only competive with best not better.

I have a Warrior and Berserker , both with the same WK #1 Burning Steel Broadblade weapon and +16 damage aug.

Now that Warriors get stances,

2: Increase 2H Slash Damage v2 by 80%


Can you guess what that does for Warrior sustained DPS? - I can just turn on attack on Warrior and do more DPS than a Berserker mashing Volley, Frenzy, Overwhelming.

Then why was one class singled out as "having to manage its resources again" leading to the deathbloom nerf? When it was shown that mana regen among the 3 dps casting classes was equal and yet the other two continue to stay at the higher levels undaunted.

Why is it that one class was hit with repeated "burst dps nerfs" being told they can't do it all well - swift dot removed from raids, improved twincast aa remove, spell twincast removal, dot spell power tuning lowered more and more each year. WIth the reason being you can't do ok burst while doing great sustained. Yet we have 3 great burst classes, one especially, now still destroying people in burst fights while slowly encroaching on the limited burst classes sustained. One already competes it out with necros for 4 or 5 minutes into a fight and the others have cried foul for 3 years now wanting to do the same as the outlier. Its practically the rallying cry of some crt's "lets not fight it out over burst scraps when we should be concerned with dominating sustained as well".

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and herein lies the problem, why are you being allowed top burst dps and still be competitive on the best sustained? Isn't this the exact argument that people made against wizards? your statement proves exactly what the issue is. hasn't the general rule of thumb been the better you burst, the worse you sustain? Now all of a sudden you think that doing both with the best is ok, since you are the class that gets to do it? Rogues should not burst as good as berserkers but they should out sustain them. and it should be a clear definition on both.

I am glad this thread exists, because it is nice to get some enhancements to make us contemporary as far as damage output goes...However....

I am also not surprised that some aspects of this thread ALSO exist and that its well on its way to many pages. Like usual. That being the whining and crysacking on the part of some of the community. How can you all find even more ways to be contemptible on such a routine basis? I really wish some of you would find some other game to poison because many of us are sick and tired of it. Grow a pair and just accept that not everything is going to be perfect and that coming here and yammering to the dev team and the rest of the community just makes people care less than zero when you actually have a legitimate complaint. OMGZ a rogue might get to play second fiddle to a wizard instead of the rightful place going to a zerk. Is that what this is about? Fighting over who is second best? HA! A man in a dress still beats us both.
Anyway...
Now I guess I can sit back and enjoy the boosts until the whiners get them taken away. Nothing like people saying "Congrats rogues on some much needed boosts, but since you are now a bit stronger them my character in some situations on some parses, I am going to Shawshank Repemption your new skills into oblivion so as to maintain my tenuous grasp on my sense of self worth".

I want to frame this quote and hang it on the wall.

Welcome to the life of a mage....

The problem is, you are using the same arguments and positions that you told mages NOT to use. That is hypocritical.

Posts like this aggravate me. Other classes complaining when a class that needed some help actually gets it. You other classes do realize that there have been plenty of times you received upgrades when others didnt? It's all cyclical. Rogues offer ZERO utility. We have SOS, but we cannot add to other group/raid members performance AT ALL! We are dps, and dps only. Not to mention that we have to be at a mobs back to do any kind of decent dps. For the last couple of expansions, we are consistently out dpsd by mages, wizards, and about equivalent with monks (even they plenty of times out parse us). We needed a dps boost to stay relevant as a class.

The only reason i see is people are so used to see rogues as a 2nd tier dps (when did you see a rogue top1 a burst or a sustained fight before the patch? was years ago unless very specific conditions like death, group setup etc...) that they dont remember that we SHOULD be top tier dps class.

(Quite often in my guild Songsa.)

I should have not asked this kind of question i guess, theres enough guild out there where some people have more skills than others (or care about dps vs slacking during raids) and youll find certainly some with hybrids destroying everyone also...
Nm ...