After Dzarn's post about displayed and mitigation AC equations, I wanted to more visibly see how heavily certain things impact our AC. I used the equations given by Dzarn, and separated out certain things (shield, HAGI/HSTR, etc), then plotted them in a spreadsheet (link). I made graphs for displayed & mitigation AC, making a bunch of assumptions, and separated out a few things in other graphs for clarity - gear only, buffs only, and a comparison of group vs raid warrior armor. This setup makes the following assumptions: CotF T1 raid gear Nonvisibles for their class (+ the maxed quest charm) Visibles include the best primary weapon (+ secondary for dual wielding melee), and a metal powersource Augs give AC only, no HAGI/HSTR Augs use an average AC value, depending on class (does not include shield aug): Tanks have 40 AC per aug Other melee have 37 AC per aug Shield wearing casters have 35 AC per aug MAG/WIZ have 20 AC per aug If the class can be an Iksar, they are. Bonus = the race/class bonus No Alaran Stone Tear Hero's Fortitude 7 Food = Merchan'ts Feast & Brew (153 AC) Tribute = 200 AC, except group warriors which get 150 Tanks use a 50 AC shield aug, everyone else uses 40 melee DPS and MAG/WIZ are not using shields Buffs are Rk 3 raid buffs (details on buffs below) Personal Discs are as many AC related discs as possible Others' discs assume WAR/PAL/SHD/CLR are grouped together Here are the results: Displayed AC includes our AC Sum (items, heroics) + our Computed Defense (Defense Skill, Avoidance, HAGI + AGI). Displayed AC does not include the class softcap, so it is artificially high. Mitigation AC includes our softcap returns, so everything we get after our class softcap is reduced (from 25% - int casters, to 35% - warriors). Note the total value for mitigation AC here is inflated - I couldn't figure out how to reduce all fields by the class softcap AC, so they are off by that amount. Combat Stability + Physical Enhancement replace Avoidance in this graph. Here's a little key I made to help show how things stack up. Sorry shield and HSTR colors got switched in mitigation AC for this image. Most of the AC on gear only is from visibles (~40%), ~20% comes from nonvisibles, and ~12% from augs. ~20% is from the shield alone. Most classes here use Skin, Spurs, Symbol, Form of Defense (casters used Prismatic Ward instead), and Gunthak Grit (I didn't use the Gnoll AC buff because it's weird). Classes that use self buffs + Cert instead are accounted for. SHD buffs includes their AC tap. For Bard songs, it's assumed that if you have a Bard, everyone has Doben's, and tanks get Kaficus' Spiteful Lyric as well. Notice Bard AC songs account for almost as much AC as the rest of your normal buffs. (~1000 rAC, or ~300 mitigation AC). One thing I want to point out is the calculation for AC from buffs (spellAC is the value from spells_us.txt): Buff AC = spdatAC / 4 (for non-int classes)Buff AC = spdatAC / 3 (for int) So INT casters get more AC from buffs than any other class - although the difference is not very notable in the graph due to their lower softcap returns. Displayed AC from buffs is calculated as follows: Buff AC (Displayed) = INT( 1000 * INT( spellAC / 4 ) / 847 ) Spell AC is again divided by 3 for int classes. It would make sense to use this equation for AC in spell parsers. Discs used are as follows: WAR: Personal Discs = Steadfast Defense, Field Guardian, Imperator's Command, 3rd Spire PAL: Personal Discs = Armor of the Inquisitor, Armor of Reverence, 3rd Spire SHD: Personal Discs = Grelleth's Carapace, Mortal Coil, 3rd Spire For all tanks, "Others' Discs" is a combination of Group Armor of the Inquisitor (Field Guardian for PAL), Spirit of the Wood (lol), Cleric 3rd Spire and Champion's Aura. Other's Discs is just to show the gain from group oriented +AC disciplines (not realistic for most situations). ex: A warrior's gain from group AotI is AotI - Imp Command. The only big difference here is in visibles, nonvisibles, and the shield. A group geared warrior takes a 25% AC hit on their gear compared to a raid geared warrior. (4706 vs 3408 rAC) One last thing I want to point out is the differences in heroic gear sets (from a tanks perspective). As long as you're getting melee based heroics, the differences are very small. Going from WAR/PAL/SHD heroics to any other melee class is only a 40 AC difference total. The second best choice for tank heroics would be the bard set, which has the same exact HDEX and HAGI, but a loss of 40 AC. Overall, you can see why AGI (i.e. Planar Agility), HSTR, and the race/class bonuses have been considered broken. Out of all your AC, it would be extremely difficult and not even worth it to try and parse their effects, as they are so miniscule. Stacking HSTR or HAGI for AC purposes would not be useful. The Alaran Stone Tear adds a tiny bit of AC, but defense is likely used in the hit/miss calculation so I wouldn't necessarily discount it's worth.
This is awesome. Quite a few surprises that jump out at me: clerics with such high AC, enchanters also fare well ahead of monks (shaman and druids, too!).
Very nice. Any chance you can publish the raw data you took likely countless hours to type in somewhere so others can work with it in their own creative ways (or update it as new discs/gear become available)
spreadsheet link Unfortunately the charts actively reference other sheets so I can't delete the redundant ones. The main sheets that are important are Stats (totals for rAC, AA etc), AC Buffs (spdat AC for Rk. 3 AC buffs), Displayed AC Values and Mitigation AC Values. Everything was made basically using those. You can duplicate the sheet and edit stuff you want into it. Mainly use the Stats page to change stuff - for example, you can change the shield AC values and see what happens.
Great stuff Sirene! Added this to this thread Great Posts Made on EQLive so there's always a reference down the road. And to Feiddan, cleric AC didn't surprise me much given things we've been told over the years - between being a plate class (so higher AC + returns from non plate classes), being the defensive priest (so higher AC + returns from other priests), etc. Still well under the 3 tanks, which is as it should be.
not that it's a huge deal, but technically speaking i have a couple bits of feedback regarding SK buff AC: 1. mortal coil is a buff we get sometimes when getting a kill shot on an LB or higher con mob - it's in no way feasible or possible to get or maintain in any situation outside of melee swarming while solo. because of this i really don't think it's reasonable to include it as a self buff given the broader context you're going for here. 2. our AC tap "challenge for XX" degrades per tick, so its overall effect is less than what the max for the spell is shown for. 3. SKs do not use the Spurs line, we have our own self buff that conflicts with it, Drape of XX. there is a stacking conflict with Imperator's Command, so i don't know if you were ever counting that as extra AC an Sk can get, but if so you need to remove that from your calculations.
The disc part is sort of hand-wavy, it's meant to be more of an "if the stars aligned" scenario. I see how it can be misleading to include certain things, MC for instance. Warriors aren't going to use Steadfast Defense all the time, and I put it in their disc AC also. This is also part of the reason I didn't put up numbers, and put classes in order by AC. That would cause a lot of trouble, I think. Drape has the same AC as Spurs so I didn't mention it. Imperator's Command was replaced with Group Armor of the Inquisitor in Others Discs, so it's not really included in this. SK AC tap has slightly more AC so I didn't include group AotI for SKs. That being said, I don't have a great grasp on tanks and their nuances so any input is appreciated.
Awesome info, I'd love to see one done with avoidance, block, parry thrown in too if that's possible.
This just shows me what I already knew though, that Warriors are > than everyone else.. Also, HP>AC Seriously though, nice work as usual with your spreadsheets and maths. Getting closer to knowing everything that goes on behind that Sony curtain ~
I'm thinking the heroic augs are pointing that getting augs for avoidance rather than mitigation is maybe more useful.
Something is weird or maybe because I'm not so familiar with the Beast class but their displayed is same (or very close) to mage but the mitigation seems only slightly higher. Seems their defensives would be a bit more pronounced versus the mage since they are supposed to fight alongside the pet.
Beastlord defenses are much better overall than magician. A difference of 400, on a scale of 3000, is a sizable mitigation difference. The bulk of their advantage, besides, is in avoidance. Sharing the Block skill with monks instead of Parry with all the other melee is a big deal. Magicians, naturally, lack both, though Staff Block makes up a little of the difference.
Separated out buffs: Melee (everyone) with shields: Interactive graphs link Can see what each segment is and its value. That site will go away in a few days, but you can copy the source and use it elsewhere if you like (forums don't allow iframes).
Did you include the Ranger self-buff, Spurcoat rank 3? http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=34571 - 225 more buff AC for a ranger that stacks with just about everything (everything I've seen you list here, anyway). Druids have their own version of that line, too (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=34916&source=Live, 270 buffed AC at rank 3).
Nice catch. Added Cloak of Spurs to Druids and Spurcoat to Rangers. Exclusions:- There is another AC buff, Armor of Ancestral Spirits (SHM - 120 AC) I left out because it only lasts a few minutes and I don't think it's commonly used. - Torrent of Agony (SK CotF group AC tap) doesn't stack with Field Guardian (afaik) so it's not included.- The AC stat food clicky from the 15th anniversary, Courageous Casserole, is an upgrade to Form of Defense. (437 vs 390 AC)- The highest AC mount is the War Bear Saddle, with 90 AC. Mount AC buffs stack with everything (but not each other).- The warrior ability Unbroken Attention adds 588 AC and stacks with everything.- Direwind Gnoll Reaver Fortitude gives you "less" AC if you have a higher softcap (like Armor of Wisdom). Plate classes get ~153 displayed AC while int casters get ~204.
