Why play a cleric?

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Sirene_Fippy, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    I've seen a couple threads here with players asking advice on which priest class to play. My question to you is, in what scenario would you recommend someone play a cleric?

    It seems to me that druids and shaman are able to cover the needs of a group (healing wise) and provide more class synergies and utility than clerics. I do not have a problem with this, I like being a super healer. It just feels a little weird thinking to myself that I honestly can't come up with a reason to tell someone to play a cleric (unless they really want to raid, in which case druids and shaman are also highly desirable). I love playing my cleric, it's awesome, but I'm afraid I don't have a very convincing argument as to why that is.
  2. Grelthur Elder

    You get to eat emeralds like they are skittles?

    I just do it because it's what I've done for a long time. I honestly don't know enough about the other priest classes to say they don't have similar abilities, but AFAIK clerics are the only ones with DI, AI, Vie, HP aura, arbitration, ability to grant 100% rez with full hp/mana; I'm sure there are others but those just came right off the top of my head. Our utility is mostly directed at keeping the group alive, that's our primary job. In some instances, we can deal minor damage to mobs but really not enough to make it noticeable, unless it's undead and then there's that nummy AA dot we have :D . I suppose clerics just have a different type of person who plays them.
    Talonthalis likes this.
  3. LoonyToony Elder

    Offensively we are miles behind the curve. This includes utility and capability. However with the dev chat that went on a month ago do not expect any change in these areas.

    Defensive utility di I use only for raids. Most content group wise is not needed. Ai absolutely worthless do not even bother meming a block one hit spell. Vie also worthless do not bother meming ever can absorb three hits. Big freakin whoop. Shining armor with the nerf I rarely mem it then bag it. No longer worth keeping on a spell bar. Auras I keep up. A 100% res that is only used once a day. Big freakin whoop. Barely ever use it any more because content is so easy you have to work at dieing.

    Heals yeah I can do a 120k heal. Though tank only needs 50k heal I sure can over heal it. Arbs are a great heal source also. Didn't druids get an arb ability a few years back? While we may be king of crits the other priests are not that far behind us in reality. Since we over heal so much would be nice if that over healing was useful.

    Our class needs some major TLC pretty badly. I doubt we'll get it. Most likely we are getting major fluff stuff in the future. Like call of the herald and useless crap. Wish I was wrong but with what we have gotten lately this 15 year cleric is gloomy about the classes future. I would recommend both other priests long before I would recommend a cleric. Other then raids of course. You would have way more fun as both of the other priests.
  4. Crystilla Augur

    Here's what I tend to say (my opinion):

    1. Clerics have a LOT more flexibility in play style than others give them credit for.
    2. Their vast healing options far surpass shaman (group elixir only for the most part) and druid (direct heal for the most part). What this means is, it frees the cleric up to do other things within the group. (See #5+ below for details)
    3. If you want to do more mass pulling/faster pulling/dealing with multiple mobs active at a time, cleric can handle that a lot better.
    4. Your highest pressure groups are best with a cleric; your toughest adventures are best with a cleric.
    5. If your tank is the puller, tell him to stay put and have the cleric pull. Unless you're in tough content or are under geared for the content, the cleric can handle almost non-stop pulling + healing (especially if you're not a full group and have 1 other healer merc out).
    6. Each class has their niche (shaman take care of melee, slow mobs, druids find those named, transport folks, clerics focus on pure healing but have various tank/pull/CC options). So depends the type of role you want to play in addition to healing.
    7. The various other options we have proactive and reactive. I feel very differently about our vies, AI, etc. spells.
    Roxxanna and code-zero like this.
  5. Zaknaffein Augur

    Back before Mercs, before the crossover of class abilities and the powers that be created this thing called class balance, you had the Holy Trinity. Three classes that you built your group and raid around: Warrior, Cleric and Enchanter. If you wanted to be end game and have the ability to beat anything then you formed a group with those three classes because they were the best of the best. Fast forward to current day EQ and it's quite a different story.

    When it comes to comparing them to other priest classes though, the odds are stacked against you if you look at what a clerics brings to the table compared to the other priests.

    • Clerics can heal! and well you can heal some more! and that's kind of it really. Their whole reason for existing is to heal. They have a few buffs that are vital as well that they provide, but you're pretty much a one trick pony, but you are the best at doing it!
    • Shamans work great with melee and are capable of healing most if not any group content. They bring a whole bag of tricks with them that everyone enjoys, with buffs and debuffs and they can even DPS if they choose too. Give them an Epic and they are everyone's best friend. They work great as well if you single box(molo).
    • Druids are the most versatile class in EQ. There is a whole slew of abilities druids can do. I can go on and on but point is, druids work well with others when you think of synergy with all the other classes. They are the best boxing option of the three priest classes most often, with a few class combinations favoring a shaman as your priest box. They can Track and Port and Snare.. all three are pretty huge in terms of benefits to a group or boxed toon.
    Deciding why to play a cleric isn't too hard really. Clerics are still the best and most efficient priest class in EQ hands down when it comes to healing. They are still a requirement for guilds to have in order to raid. The problem here lies in the fact that you are comparing them on paper and asking which one can do more stuff and therefore is the best! It's not quite so black and white and the situation dictates which is more preferable. When I think of the perfect group, where no one character is being boxed, Druids and Shamans get kicked to the curb. My Perfect group:
    • Warrior
    • Cleric
    • Bard
    • Wizzard
    • Necromancer
    • Beastlord
    Now when it comes to boxing, sorry but your cleric butt gets kicked to the curb for a druid or shaman 9 times outta 10. There's a whole slew of reasons that are mostly outlined above, but also because of class balancing and the fact that druids and shamans are capable of keeping their groups alive just fine these days, while maintaining their other class abilities whereas clerics pretty much have stayed the same throughout EQ.

    And I don't think I really need to explain the importance of clerics for raiding. Sure Druids and shamans have come up in the world and heal their groups just fine, but they just won't compare to what a cleric can do when it comes to overall abilities for healing and efficiency.

    There are other selling points as well, and of course the main reason why someone chooses to play a priest is because your boyfriend/spouse/significant other needs you to heal his :pBut really, jokes aside. If you want to raid, if you want to be the best at one the games most vital abilities and if you want to be the reason why you just beat that tough as named, then play a cleric. Of corse if you wipe, then it's all your fault!

    This game would be pretty dead/boring without people playing clerics! They took a hit when Cleric mercs came out, but they are still the best healing class in game and EQ just wouldn't be the same without them!
  6. Tour Augur

    The scenario that I would recommend that a person play a cleric, to answer your question, would be that they really enjoy the healing and survivability aspect of the game. They are having the most fun when things go bad, the healing is challenging, and they pull out a win when the group "should" have wiped.The issue becomes though, do you enjoy that part of the game enough to sacrifice losing out on all the other things that druids and shamans bring to the table to be able to bring more healing to the group?

    Building a better or more ideal group is a different (and more common) question. And yeah, the answer is going to be druid or shaman for that in most cases, for all the utility and secondary benefits. The best class for the person behind the keyboard though may not be the same. Certainly if you like healing, either of three priest classes will satisfy you. But again, maybe you like it enough, more than the DPS / utility roles, to specialize more in the healing aspect, even if a more DPS utility / augmentation may be "better" for the group.

    Another consideration is that a good number of these "What priest should I play?" posts are new players, returning players, recently created heroic characters, etc. The druids and shamans have a more generalized approach and I think people will tend to find them more enjoyable to play if they've been away form the game / have played in a while / ever.

    As LoonyToony correctly pointed out, the clerics will be over-healing a lot. The druids and shamans keep up with healing perfectly fine. But, that being said, that does open us up to do other things as well. That over-healing makes other, non-traditional, groups more interesting. Crowd control becomes optional, and consists of "meh, just tank them all." Groups of mobs that would need to be split or controlled can just be pulled at once. The "tank" can become anyone who holds aggro. Screw it, wizard tank, because stuff needs to die. And of course, the traditional tank-healer-one-or-two-mob group becomes very easy to heal.

    I'm not going to ramble on about all the spells, AA's, and tactical options the clerics bring to the table - I probably do that too much on the guild forum as it is already. But, suffice to say, you have a lot of tools to heal everyone around you in a variety of ways, cures, mitigate damage, buff HP and AC, recover mana for both yourself and others, stun, simultaneously heal and nuke, rez / call / divine rez. Oh, and turn undead, for when you want to say "This mob is mine."
  7. Barc Lorekeeper

    That's some very valid points you're raising, Crystilla.

    But those are only valid for people that play under those criterias. No pug will ever:

    1.) Appreciate flexability
    2.) Pick cleric over druid/shaman with merc clerics available
    3.) Mass pull. No tank will be available, and if there is a tank, then he will probably not be able to handle it
    4.) Do a tough adventure. The coordination to do that will most likely not be there

    I am not disagreeing with you. But people who are either making a new Heroic Character or is not settled in witha guild or whatever, will suffer.
  8. Crystilla Augur

    I'd disagree and say pickup groups would appreciate flexability. Why? Because it's really challenging to get the groups going as it is.

    If there's only 1 slot left, I'd agree - it depends on the group as to who you would want. If you're mostly a melee group, and you have both a shaman and a cleric available, shaman it is. However, if your group also has a cleric merc out and you have both available, drop the darn merc and make a new friend :)

    Tough adventures can be as simple as a 2 pull, or a wandering add sometimes. It's really hard to judge that. But the OP didn't necessarily specify one level range or another, just why someone might pick a cleric.

    I also feel there are a couple personalities that work really well for healers. Those who like to please others (since our job is to heal folks); sometimes some will say those who love playing god or having others lives in their hands as well. Saving a group from what appeared to be eminent disaster - enchanters also get to have that feeling.
  9. LoonyToony Elder

    Here is how I see all the priests atm solo to raid. Of all the three priests druids are last on my knowledge list. Assumeing mob does not summon on solo molo area.

    Solo

    Druid snare charm dots nukes. I am by no means an expert on druids but they can solo decently imo.

    Shammies root rot with dots.

    Clerics do not bother. You will go oom before the mob dies.

    Molo or solo with a merc.

    Druids I would assume would use a wiz merc to help kill faster. Maybe rogue merc if kiteing dunno.

    Shammies root rot with wiz merc able to line up several and slowly dot down with merc nukeing. Vp to keep mobs at bay.

    Cleric wizard merc set on burn merc tanks and you chain heal the living stuffing out of it. Tank merc you would be killing a mob once every 35 mins. Wizard merc can tank decently and provide the needed dps. You bring one mob and only one mob at a time.

    Small group casual content.

    Druids heal, nuke, snare runners, wolf, evac if things go south, call back pcs, or now res out of combat, and have cleric merc back up if needed. Dunno if druids can pull from a group or not. I simply do not group with druids alot.

    Shammies debuff, heal, call, res out of combat, canni, dot, nuke, buff, increase dmg, vp, crowd control, totem fade if a wipe is inc, and can pull as effective as a cleric. Can also have a cleric merc up.

    Cleric we keep auras up, can over heal by a large margin, can fade, and can root split mobs. Can have a cleric merc up.

    In small group each priest class can heal it and have a cleric merc up. However the other two classes bring a lot more to the table then a cleric. That and the shammy is just as effective at pulling as a cleric. So in small casual groups with a merc cleric it is better to play as the other two priests vs a cleric.

    Full group casual.

    Druids basically like small casual group you nuke, heal, root, snare, wolf ect

    Shammies debuff heal hot buff group dps pulling ect

    Clerics you heal and pending on make up can pull. Keep auras up and heal. If you are pulling you root split at 20% and bring next pending on dps.

    This group area probably has a merc allowing other priests to pull and side heal as needed. Both other priests bring more over a cleric vs a merc. Pulls pending on player can be constant if you have a shammy or a cleric as pullers. This is only between priests not other classes btw. Lots of people get really concerned when priests pull just a fyi.

    Hard full group content

    Druids you help heal, nuke, wolf, snare, dot, crowd control ect

    Shammies you debuff heal hot dot nuke buff dps vp and crowd control ect

    Clerics you heal aura and di

    This content really does not exist any more. Basically this is the only place in group content cleric big heals make a major impact and mercs no longer can do the major work. All priests primary focus is healing in this content. In this content root pulling is most likely not going to work and you have a none priest pulling.

    Raids

    Druids nuke and mainly focus on healing

    Shammies heal debuff

    Clerics heal heal and more heal oh and di when it pops

    The main focus of all three priest classes is healing. Where clerics are in danger is our secondary abilities. Yes we can us root to split mobs and annul to bring them in as the others die but so can shammies. We clerics need secondary roles badly. As well as offensive utility and capability. The plain fact of the matter is every priest class now brings enough healing to the table. It is the secondary abilities that make or break priest classes and where the clerics are neglected. You only need to be able to heal x to win. The x+1 is absolutely useless because over heal in eq does nothing.
  10. Nylrem Augur

    Simple answer to a simple question: What scenario would you recommend someone play a cleric over either other priest?

    Answer is: ONLY if raiding is a possibility with that toon. If you can guarantee you'll not raid with that toon, then druid or shaman is better, in any group, in group content.

    The increased heal power of clerics just isn't worth the tradeoff of greatly decreased utility, dps, and adps offered from the other 2 priests unless it's vs. raid targets where it's required multiple healers are healing a single tank.

    When that's required, then clerics tremendously out perform the other priest classes. They have faster and higher heals, which tremendously help vs. raid targets. It just isn't required any more, in group content, so either other priest class will offer better utility, dps, and adps in group content, than a cleric.
    Enkel likes this.
  11. Grelthur Elder

    I didn't mean to imply that we were fine the way we were. I completely agree clerics need additional utility.

    As far as our current abilities go, I always have DI up unless I'm out farming trash somewhere, I just do. I use Vie on the group when we start and then remove it, it's not the best utility but I've always been of the opinion that every little bit helps. I rarely use AI unless on raid, and that is just for initial engage, it doesn't stay on my spell bar. If your tank is doing just fine with minimal healing, then load up a nuke or two. Use Rebuke then Intervention to throw out a double nuke. Sic the hammer on the mob. Drop undead nukes and dots if you get a chance. Play with Turn Undead and piss off the tank :p. Are we going to out DPS a druid or shaman, probably not, but just because our utility isn't as effective as the other priests, it doesn't mean we can't enjoy ourselves however and whenever we can.

    As to the OP, again, I just don't know. If someone asked why should I play a cleric, the only answer I could honestly give is because you want to. We aren't the most solo/molo friendly class and we probably never will be. However, the game is not static, things always change. Will we ever get the utility of Shamans or Druids, probably not, but you can find fun in anything. All I can say is just tell them that you enjoy it, because if you don't enjoy playing your toon, it's time to re-roll.
  12. LoonyToony Elder

    Sorry if I came on strong Grelthur. It is just frustrateing that we make progress and then it gets butchered to the point of uselessness with zero adjustments to compensate for it. Feels like the cleric class is circleing the drain. Hoping devs will get the cleric class back up to snuff but not to hopeful.
    In 15 years of playing one class this year of clericing is the least fun in eq I have ever had.
  13. Grelthur Elder

    No offense taken, I understand the frustration. When your primary job is done just as satisfactorily, albeit less efficiently, by another person, and your secondary abilities are rather lack-luster, well, it is very disheartening. While there are situations where a cleric is going to be better, most of the time we aren't better, just equal. Like Nylrem said, in today's game, why play a Cleric, you want to raid on that toon. It's unfortunate, but it's true. The same could probably be said of warriors, honestly, when comparing them to their tank counterparts. While I agree with Crystilla that we do have quite a bit of flexibility, unless it's needed, people don't want a cleric to do it. It's sad, but I've seen it first hand.
    LoonyToony likes this.
  14. Adaire Lorekeeper

    If you want to have the most direct affect on raid/group success then play a cleric and play it well!
    A well played cleric can literally do anything EQ has to over nowadays. It's also the class that is BY FAR AND AWAY not common to see one played REALLY well. I can count on about two hands the clerics that I have EVER seen in EQ that REALLY were just maximized and played to the very best of their potential! There are tons of good clerics mostly all the rest are average but very very few really good ones!!

    Just my opinion but it's one of the things that draws me to play a cleric.
  15. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    In the interest of improving play, what differentiates average clerics from the truly exceptional?
  16. LoonyToony Elder

    Depends in what you mean by exceptional. If you mean by big heal parses you need a good heal setup and to chain smash heals. If you mean something else you will need to say what :).
  17. Zaknaffein Augur

    The size of their heals and how they use them.

    Keeping me Alive ~

    ect.
  18. Iila Augur

    In the most vague sense, ability to perceive the situation at hand, predict where it will go, understanding available options and how to use them, skill in choosing the best of the available options, reaction time in implementing those actions, and willingness to push boundaries to find new best options.

    By vague, I mean doesn't only apply to clerics, EverQuest or even video games.
    Siwin Nonesuch likes this.
  19. Nylrem Augur

    Adaire, I disagree.

    With skill levels being equal, a well played druid or shaman, in group content, will increase a group's dps, effectiveness, and utility a MUCH larger amount, thus have a MUCH greater 'direct affect' than a cleric.

    I play a cleric on our server's top raid guild. I also have a 100 group/random raid rot geared druid, and my heroic shaman is currently 91.

    My heroic shaman, with only rk1 spells and only heroic gear/aa easily solo heals (no additional healer merc) my level 100 boxed mag through level 100 HAs, taking on up to 3 trash mobs at a time. I do pop a cleric merc for named, for extra security, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could heal even for a named.

    If a level 91 shaman can do that, why in the world would you want a cleric that has much less utility/dps for group content?

    Sure, a cleric can add a small amount of dps when only light healing is needed, but it's not even in the same ballpark as a druid. The difference between the utility, buffs, and debuffs of a shaman and a cleric is like comparing the difference between a necro and a warrior. A cleric has 1 decent buff and a couple auras that a merc can't cast for the group, none of which are necessary for group content.

    Anyone choosing to level up a cleric over a druid or shaman for group only play is not making a wise decision.
  20. porky Augur

    That's the problem. While clerics are needed for raids, most of the game even for raiders is group content. And with the introduction of OP healer mercs. Most players wont bother looking for another healer of any class. I main a druid but have played all 3 priest classes and used to consistently box a cleric with my druid(back when druids couldn't heal well enough.) When they brought out the over-powered healer mercs in SoD, every tank and melee in the game proceeded to molo the expansion. While priest mains were getting trained by their near-useless tank mercs in Oceangeen HIlls.

    That was the largest cleric exodus I had seen since the borefest raiding epidemic in PoP-OoW where every event for a cleric was hide behind a wall and cast CH over and over again. It was normal on Time raids to have at least 2 to 3 clerics in the healer channel fall asleep at the keyboard every night. "Oh what fun!"

    Unfortunately most of the utility and fun of playing a cleric solo are just lesser forms of paladin abilities. Paladins who can often outheal priest classes while tanking/offtanking and doing more DPS than a druid on full burn. So if you like that aspect of playing a cleric you would probably love playing a paladin. I think EQ repeated an old D&D mistake in making the paladin class, as a cleric is a battle priest, thats why they carry weapons and wear armour. If they were to combine the two classes into one, there would be no doubt of the appeal of said class. Which unfortunately would be bringing clerics up to paladin power level, there would be very little trade off the other way.

    I think most cleric mains that are left in the game do so out of stubbornness(same as most druids.) That or they like to feel needed(for raids.) Since my main was always a druid and my boxed alt was the cleric he ended up retiring at 85, and those last 5 levels were just me PLing him cause I hated to see him go. Fact is though that a a cleric merc works great never has anything to interrupt them in real life, always has mana and there is actually less incentive to take a cleric player over a real one, even more so with merc AA now.

    I don't care what any dippy melee/tank class has to say about how great a "real cleric" is over their merc. Does that mean they will jump at a chance to go help a cleric main do progression, even though they already did those tasks/missions with their cleric mercs.

    I look at the progression quests done by different classes. Your tanks and melee will zip through game progression fairly quickly, your clerics are usually still struggling in the middle of it when the next expansion comes out, and often never finish. Heck, my raid-geared druid just now finished UF-progression. I had to wait til the tank merc was strong enough to tank the tasks.

    I don't know what would need to be done at this point to fix the classes(cleric isn't the only class whose balance is completely out of whack.) The devs have completely ignored all player feedback on the matter, and they have done so for far to long. Its safe to assume they prefer the game in the screwed-up state it is in now. My advice to anyone new to the game would be to not play a priest at all, but if they insisted i would advise them to play cleric last.