so rather than rely on secondhand information, why not make a Zerker and look at the AA list for yourself before you comment about one of them? you could've cleared up any potential confusion in a matter of 3min, but instead you post misinformation in the hopes of furthering your agenda. much like you are doing in this thread by claiming that blind/root/self-damage are "substantially less funky" than maintaining rear-arc. when you're rooted there are no adjustments, if the mob gets pushed away you have to click off Frenzied Resolve. there's no rogue ability that you flat out lose when not in the rear-arc. imagine if one of your burn abilities faded anytime you attacked from the front, then we'd be comparably restricted.
Great baiting there Gragas. I really do not understand your desire to insult me. Please explain it if you can. Take it to private messages if you like, or leave it here if you want it to be public. I'm amiable to either.
Rogues lose their backstab if they're not in the rear arc of an enemy. We have to go down several AA lines in order to regain even a chance of a partial backstab from the front arc.
backstab isnt a burn ability on a 10min recast tho... even assuming you dont have the AA's to get partial frontal backstab, you can always get back to the rear-arc by the time backstab refreshes (6sec?). our root is all-or-nothing. do you not understand the difference in magnitude for the restriction there? your rear-arc restriction is more akin to our blinding penalty, in that positioning can cost is a combat-round here or there. and that still isnt addressing that we are capping our HP at 89% during combat, taking self-dot damage, and two AA burn abilities that can recourse self DD damage when they fade. it isnt even a contest, berserkers are by far the most restricted/penalized dps class in the game at the moment.
How well do you do without Frenzied Resolve? Does it make up a substantial portion of your DPS on sustained DPS? What about in fights that last 9-10 minutes where you only get a single activation of it, how do you do there when you're able to land all of it vs when you're not able to use it? I can only go off of what I see in the game and what I see in my parses. The point that I have been fighting for the whole time is for better survival of Non-Tank Melee characters and higher DPS for Rogues and Berserkers to put them at a reasonable amount of sustained DPS. If they leave Rampage in and require us to deal with that mechanic, our sustained DPS should be higher than Casters who do not have to deal with it (as long as the caster can maintain sustained DPS and not run OOM). If they change it so we have the same risk as casters then we should be on par with their damage. I didn't think it was a very controversial viewpoint to have.
Ok as to that quote, yes I *do* believe adding in a melee dps during GoD wasn't the smartest move at the time. Further more I believe even the devs now realise this too. At the time many guilds lacked healers (certainly more than dps), and further more silk gear rotted like crazy for us (I think maybe for others too - it was always the cheapest in DKP). Conclusion: int based healer class, maybe via taps from target to target of target, or some similar thing. Eg necro/cleric hybrid. Yet another dps was more sexy though, so they went with that for the boosted sales. However what's done is done. I welcome your class now you're here and don't mind competing with you guys. I do draw the line at being labelled as 2nd place. Sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But sharing joint 1st I have no issues with. Furthermore I'm more than happy to back any compaigns you have to make yourselves less dependent on others, and have offered suggestions here (and in the past to the devs) on how to do that.
Not posting parses to public areas is a start. It just fuels the class envy. People will also take them as being what every member of your entire class can do as opposed to just a snap shot of what the people on the parse can do based upon who was there, what were they doing at the time etc. Parses are not objective data by any stretch, in contrast to how much emphasis people place on them as being the almighty metric to end them all. There is all that aforementioned dynamic plus a bit of luck. Otherwise I don't give a rat's butt who my class's CRT is, as long as they make an attempt to address valid issues and don't go about it in such a manner that lends to screwing over others in the process.
Frenzied Resolve is huge. Life lesson for you. It's always a good idea to do your own research before commenting on a subject you know nothing about. While your rear arc is a good complaint you have nothing to compare being rooted or blind to or taking 30k in self dots from your own disc or being capped at 89% hp just to use your disc or having to 35k nuke yourself to use them. It doesn't even come close. Furthermore we have no HHE proc we're more reliant on bst/bard because of this while you're not. Honestly unless they remove root and blind I do not think rogues should be equals.
I really do think we should be equals Slasher. Rogues and Berserkers should do on par sustained DPS with similar burn. That does not however mean that I support huge self-nukes, self damage over times, self blinds, or self roots. So before you hate on me for not doing research, why not just ask? I was asking a question, I got an answer, and now I shared my thoughts on the answer. Never anywhere did I say that Berserkers were in a good place right now or that they shouldn't be better.
I would say we're about as close as we can hope to get;. The issue is consistency it's hard to be consistent when 75% of your burn and 50% of your sustained is controlled by another class. But I do not think rogues should be equal unless they face the same issues right now its not even close.
I don't view this as a "woe is the beserker" issue. Its more like zerkers being just a door stop/boat anchor/paperweight if not for the dps. You can have your top parses for all I care, because without that, zerks are funbags on a bull.I have one as a box I play with my bard. Lots of dps, until he dies. Than he is just a sack of catmeat being dragged while I am SoS. Rogues.....we still have some practicality. Its not that zerks have it so bad as opposed to rogues having it quite a bit better. If we want to be neck and neck to zerks, than we need to take all our utility and flush it. There is definitely not enough of it to clog the toilet but it could be a double flusher. What would be the point though? I think our class identity and unique attributes that make us rogues are something we need to retain and lobby to have more content for. Otherwise its being just dps_01 and as a retired raider who just farts around in the group world, I would not trade the little utility I have for all the top parses in China.
Ya nothing like being rooted and a mob pushed just lost all my dps unless i click off a main burn disc so i can move, but hey you lose the rear arc for 1-2 rounds.
A moving mobs screws us both. You don't have to look for it's back, you just have to find melee range.
I won't argue that berserkers have a higher barrier, but it's a bit chalk and cheese. Berserkers have a huge dependency on things being "just so" for their burn, but outside of that have very little limitations. Rogues have some dependency on the perfect burn (not as much, but a mob that spins mid Frenzied Stabbing *is* a major drop in dps), and continual but lesser dependency at every other time. So it's really hard to compare as on long fights rogue have more issues while on short fights berserkers do. One thing that is definitely true though - we both have excessive requirements compared to other dps classes so by rights we should be at least matching if not bettering them.
Parses are the *only* objective data we have, but it depends how we select them - that's the subjective part. If people only ever post specific parses then the data is skewed. That said, if you're unbiased and show say the best ever parses for every class then although it's not the norm then it does still show the peak of what that class is capable of. The danger though is in assuming the mean dps follows the same line. Some classes with have much larger variance on dps than others; typically those with huge dependencies on external support.
