Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

I have mixed feelings about the changes. The mass killing nerf is a good change. The AA auto grant is great for my new Bard level 63 with zero AAs. I just want to be able to play with guild members and where the newer content is. For level 95 war 3400aa,95 shm 1300aa and 71 clr 850aa it seems to really make all that hard work and time to be wasted. I can see it would be more attractive to make new characters instead of people buying accounts. I like the idea of auto granting AAs but the method of implementation I think should be reviewed. My main disappointment is not being able to us the bonus AA exp to easily get the newer expansion AAs by leveling quickly. This makes me less motivated to buy the new expansion and more likly to only bbuy one month of gold for the AAs and stay 95. I really wonder sonys plan for EQ 1 in the next 5 to 10 years.

No offense, but this is a terrible argument. This change is intended to entice and keep new players rather than having them run off when they realize the game isn't over when they get to that magical level 100. Yes, PL is easy to get if you have platinum and/or are willing spend extra money to buy Krono. Yes, leveling is incredibly easy when you have years of game play and zone knowledge at your disposal. This game is not easy for new players, it's easier than it once was and is far less punishing then it used be, but try to look at it from a brand new player's perspective.

You can't pull a zone in WoW. They coded the mobs so that if you pull them too far from their spawns/paths they simply drop aggro, become untargetable, and run back to reset in their spots before you can attack them again. You are limited in pulls to the follow range of the mobs.

I have to say: having been back a few months and as someone with a gold account, these are terrible changes. First of all, the servers are going to be cleaned out of silver population. This means that you either pay or don't play. because if you don't pay, you are severely gimped compared to your gold peers. Will it incentivize some silvers to go gold? Yes probably, but it will also incentivize some silvers that were never going to pay to just quit. That will cause server populations to go down, not up. Perhaps you want to severely disadvantage the silver players for not paying, but this is a ridiculous punishment for not having a gold account. Secondly, I can see the problems with beam pulling, given the problems this was causing for some servers. But headshot, decap, and assassinate are not the least bit problematic. I've seen tons of zerkers bite it trying to decap, and lots of rogues getting killed as well trying to assassinate. Perhaps you want to eliminate the snare component from vinelash cascade, in order to make headshot more dangerous. That is the only change that should be made. Vinelash should not be able to snare the mob in addition to rooting. It should be one or the other.

It was a good thing to have people giving money to some classes to pl them. That mean that services were being rendered, an economy was being created, a transaction being made in game without the game developers breathing down our neck. Why change that? Ok-- the beam pull server disruptions were one thing, but headshot, assassinate, decap and even sk swarm was never risk free. I've seen an sk bite it and bite it and then bite it again from bad pulls with swarm.

Finally, please rethink the idea of giving away all these AA's. AA progression is one of the really nice things about the game-- the fact that one doesn't have to level up, especially on the Zek server, was really a wondering thing. I don't have the platinum to level up and get the new weapons and armor necessary to survive at higher levels, and I'm just going to be pvp bait if I level with my current equipment. I like the fact that my killing stuff when I am questing still gives me experience at 80. Please, please don't do this. It's a definite change for the worse.

If SOE really believes that the player base wants these changes why aren't you starting a new server with these rules to see how many players will actually play this way? A Firiona Vie style server with the same no-drop rules plus your nerfs would put this to the ultimate test. Certainly easier then pissing off your client base with these sweeping changes.

Since the ability of pulling many mobs is not being addressed, and now that the cat is out of the bag and confirmed by soe how to cause server lag and what the impact is.
How long after this patch will it be before tag teaming starts happening with person A pulling giant numbers of mobs in one zone to lag the server while person B in another zone exploits this same lag for various uses/needs?
Person A doesn't need to fire a shot, its the path calculating of hundred of mobs thats the issue....

How does the retuning of all of these classes help stop the lag?
btw I dont play a zerker / ranger or Rogue... their Head-assassin-decapa-shot is not worth the effort, yea they get to say Look what i did, once in a while as is...

Why even bother having decap and headshot skill if they only proc 1-2 times per minute? The whole point was that you could pick off the trivial mobs you encounter like a boss because your skill is so far above.

I feel especially bad for the Ranger class - at least if you nerf Headshot, bring the ranged DPS back up to a competitive level!

Where did SoE go? Not one comment from SoE in roughly the last 15-20 pages (lost track it's a long thread)... community is raging over this and we're not hearing anything back.

Just remember when we're talking about ACHIEVEments
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/achieve

When is this Update suppose to go live? have we got a date yet.

That was my point =). WoW doesn't have these problems because they addressed them. The SoE team is trying to address them, but the WoW method seems better than the nerf method...

Make AA easier to get, don't give it away. That is not fair to he players that have maxed AA. If you are giving things away, then give away raid gear. That is the same analogy. Things have to be earned in the game to be worth it.

I can't comment on other classes, but changing the zerker decap is wrong. Only raid geared zerkers can make those massive pulls. Decap only works on light blue mobs so why make it a 2min refresh and take away the riposte. Once again, you are making a change that damages the entire class when only the top 2 percent are benefiting. Maybe change the timer to 30sec for decap. Giving back the AA is a crock. I am maxed AA. So what is SOE giving back to improve my in game experience? Decap finally brought interest back to the zerker class. Now you are taking that away the one benefit. We are without substantial AC or mitigation to tank any mobs, many of our disc's root us or cause damage, making our only chance to kill mobs to do it quickly. If you are going to change decap, then take the level limit off of it.

I should like to point out for the record that Shining Bastion swarming is unlike beaming or the various forms of headshotting related shenanigans. It takes gear aa and a lot of time spent developing ones character to a point where the procs from Shining Bastion cover the damage you are taking. Also if I want to swarm in this way in higher tier VOA zones which is the limit of my swarming ability. I must bring an appropriate group set up with me as I need the defensive boosts. Why would you kill an ability that actively encourages me to group in order to achieve something greater than I am able to do on my lonesome. This has been a real investment of time and skill on my behalf learning how to rotate my discs properly and a great many other factors. This is NOT the same as some noob ranger perma camping temple in fearrott in junk for gear aa just because he is able to abuse one overpowered ability.

Also what about the social aspect of grouping and helping my friends/lower level guildies level and catch up with one fell swoop you are basically killing this aspect of the game. Despite the claims you have made about months spent carefully considering this option I do not for one moment think you have truly considered the gravity of this. Precious little of the old everquest and the grouping aspect of the game remains this will surely kill even more of it. How can this be considered a positive for the player base in anyway?

It might of occurred to you if you had given this the amount of thought you claimed that a better way of handling this was to corral us swarmers into instances where we could carry on with our business and not affect other players ability to enjoy the zones we are swarming in. I should also like to point out that 99% of the petitions you receive complaining about swarming and training are from people with a sub par knowledge of the game. I should like to point out clearly one more time for the record if a mob is aggro'ed on someone else and you do nothing at all to make yourself noticed the mob will not bother you even if it is a see invis mob are you are hidden in someway unless the person the mob is aggroed on dies. People who and whine about being trained by swarmers are most likely bringing the swarm down on themselves with bard song or some such thing.

I am highly aggrieved at being penalised because other players knowledge of the game is poor. I do NOT train people but I equally refuse to be held accountable for other players stupidity. Educating people on the finer points of playing this game well is NOT my responsibility. Why don't you consider fixing the abilities that are causing players to train themselves rather than shafting us.

Like every other Swarmer/Beamer out there I do NOT train people what would be the point when we want to kill efficiently dumping our swarm maliciously on other players wastes our time as much as it does there's.

Now lets discuss Shining Bastion on a non swarming setting shall we. As a dedicated tank on raids this has become a staple of the buffs I constantly ask for from my clerics it helps me hold aggro and supplements my healing very well especially when I run the right discs. A cleric will not have the time to refresh something that now has a limited lifespan it was bad enough when it was a buff with under 10 minute duration. Expect it now that it will fade in MUCH less time I would be crazy to even bother asking for a refresh of it.

In a raiding environment the healing produce by the three priest classes of the game is more than sufficient to keep any tanks alive it matters not whether you are a shaman, druid or a cleric all can do the job equally well or certainly well enough to cover it as unlike DPS healing is finite as to how much you need past a point you are just burning it to feather your parse. Clerics exclusively heal that is all they do and all they offer a raid unlike shamans and druids who have other strings to their bows. Shining Bastion was basically the only thing clerics had to offer as a noticeable contribution to the raid success if you take this away from them you MUST offer them something of equal or greater value and no Quiet Miracle is not an acceptable riposte to my argument.

Since you seem hell bent on screwing with established game dynamics so much in recent expansions how about considering that some classes still struggle to be anything other than a one dimensional machine. I have used clerics as an example but obviously I am not blind to the other classes that also suffer in this way. When I did RoF progression on my cleric and then again on my paladin it was a huge amount easier on my paladin than my cleric. Granted this has been the way since the dawn of the game some classes struggle to perform autonomously and always have.

Seriously though do you not think it is time to address this issue and maybe if you addressed this issue before you took a long run up and a huge swing with the nerf bat to our game enjoyment then the changes might be better received?

Just going to say please DO NOT AUTO GRANT AA's. Its the best part of the game AA's are fun to earn, and already easy to get. This gives me a reason to just go FTP or not play at all. If I wanted to play a WoW like game thats where i would be. I like Bayho's idea give gold members 25% xp bonus.
Nerfing the mage beaming I can live with(i play a mage), if only to shut up all the annoying spam in General chat "40k a pull Beam PLing".

I have to say I really like the level 85 and AAX change. I came recently and made my way to 60 /300 AAX just to realize how long it would take to get to max level and 3-4K AAX to be able to play with my friends and be useful. 15 level is enough for a seasoned MMO player to learn the class mechanic and spells. A well needed change. Also on my server there is never a group to be had under level 85 so I really want to skip this part of the content.

I do believe that something needs to be done with the aa system as at 4000 aa`s they really start to drag. However, I don't think granting them is the wayto go. I would suggest raising the aa bonus cap to 8000+ and also REDUCING the experience required for 1 aa by 50%. I really think that would really speed things up for everyone.

I'm sure it is to late, but this needs to be stopped. A better way can be found.

A nerf to things that we have had for a long time is only going to hurt the player base. It should have been fix as soon as it was found, then we accept it as a mistake, now it is part of the game.

I don't swarm, but I don't like nerfs.

AA grant is crap, 100% crap.

I have earned my aa's.

Let us vote on it. Round table right?

Put it on hold let us vote for a month.

How about getting rid of level caps on groups, people want to level fast let a level 1 group with 100's. Want fast aa's get in a group of 100s, killing in end game zones. No need to nerf for this just let us get xp and aa's quickly in groups, give the high level groups a bonus for taking in one low level player in their group. I don't mean a crappy bonus, a real one, one the group can feel, 20% or 50% xp bonus. Don't change molo, and solo xp, simply make it better for groups. Just one idea of many, I can give at least 100 more other then what you are going to do.

It is not good. Even ya'll said it is going to piss people off. Find a better way.

Bottom line a million ways this can be done without a nerf, with out giving free aa's.

So, for clarification purposes, the progression servers will not receive the AA until CotF (as you said), but what about the changes to class abilities?

As a long time shadowknight the changes you are making with the class I play will greatly inhibit my ability to tank on raids, or in groups (if multiple mobs end up in camp). While I agree with limiting teh number of mobs able to be pulled in a beam session no way has a SK ever been able to match that with their swarming. Even today on servers at least teh 2 I play on the SK class is not selling swarming PL as the mages are.

I dont even agree with the changes to decap, assassinate, or headshot. I dont think they are overpowered. The beam spell is what is over powered considering it can hit soo many targets as once. It should be limited to what the Wizzy's beam spell is able to do and leave it at that. Bad enough teh mage pet is able to tank raid mobs.

I have played since April 99 took 6 years + off and came back when EQ went FTP. I utilized my time to regear and spent a long time getting to 7500 AA (just accomplished) and you guys are going to give me all the AA I just busted my butt to make? That is also silly. Maybe make that apply to accounts that are just reactivated in order to assist them with catching up but dont discount the players who have been working at this for a while.

I really think that EQ used to be a "thinking man's" game and that is what set it apart from other MMO in the market place and now the devs continue to dumb it down and dumb it down with no regards to its history or lore.

1. Ranger/berserker/rogues don't cause server issues with mass pull kills.
2. Shadow Knights need to have limited mobs per pull ( if keeping mages and wizards at 12 per pull make SK the same) don't remove riposte lifetap procs.
3. Understand removing riposte proc from Berserkers but lowering decap rate is not good, it doesn't proc have the time anyway. The only thing Berserkers have good is Decap they suck at tanking
4. As far as the AA up to 85? its an ok idea but I think SOE should refund all earned AAs for under 85 first with glyphs then do what is planned. That way we can spend our EARNED AAs on what we want. We put in the time we should be compensated for it.
5. BTW if it has a head it should be able to be Decap/Headshot
6. please let it be known what sony is going to do before doing it

After going through 20 pages and reading everything and then skimming the next 30 or so there are two types of posts, 1. being mostly about I will quit if you grant free aa's, and 2. being people making pleas or suggestions about class nerfs. It might have been nice if this was broken down into 2 different threads.
But since I have input on both I will make an argument for both.

Auto granting aa's: I have been playing for 11 years i have over 18k aa on my main and probably another 18k on my assorted bots. 11 years ago aa's were not as important to this game, but now they are vital. So auto granting aa's doesn't trivialize your work for those like me have grinded them out, for when we were out getting ours they became more and more necessary, auto granting basically pushes us back to how things were say 7 years ago when aa counts became more important then say hps/ mana alone. It gives new and returning players a chance to have a new baseline put them a little bit closer to the same playing field the majority of us are already at. Its one of the reasons I don't really want to try new games that have been around for a long time I would be very far behind the curve. So instead of thinking it trivializes everything any one has ever done think of it as a new base line. I remember when aa's were nice but not vital, now however as a SK I wouldn't let a SK join my guild with out have 6k minimum, so even with the auto grant of 5100 or so for the sk class about 2k of those would still be useless to the 6k that I would like to see on a SK. So there will still be a time for them to go out get the aa needed and learn about the aa they have just gotten.

SK nerf: I have read alot of the post dealing with the SK nerf I myself don't care about swarming, but what I do care about is how I group and raid.
Grouping...I don't always group but when I do I don't screw around I pull sometimes up to 10 or more mobs depending on group make up. I don't care about splitting all I care about is killing mobs fast and non stop, and nerfing MC or Lich sting is going to kill the group aspect of play for me.
Raids ..... During raids there is not one sk here that will admit that having these nerfed will not affect them negatively, so that being said I have read multiple posts by Terminat and Tearsin both SKs I have known for a while and respect and they have offered or mentioned different proposals that will essentially kill swarming with out killing the SK class. I really like the counter on MC and Lich Sting idea for raid and the grouping scenario I mentioned it would have no effect on them, at the same time rendering swarming impossible.
In conclusion if the nerf is going to kill group and raid play for me I might become vindictive and will just pull massive trains in zones just to pass the time and prove that killing abilities doesn't fix vindictiveness, or zone lag. Sometimes I can be a jerk like that, but I am a Shadow knight being a jerk is what I am good at.