Apron of Selfless Awareness 1million AC +2million HP/MANA/END +500k all stats and resists Item Lore: With Iron in hand wearer will never burn the bread and always create a "Perfect Grilled Cheese" Focus effect: Total Obliviousness to the world around
The named hits for 80-90k (or more, Mordaur?). The AE ramp can lay some of the DPS out in 1-2 rounds. Why would you want to battle with that? Tanks in full defensive can still go down in 1 round, which doesn't help if you have 3 clerics or 30.
Xorbb 1 is a T2 raid, and the OP says he's only been raiding from T3 in RoF. Unless OP is lying of course. But do people do that anymore? - lie on the internet?
Because the named in DH2 hits just as hard and there's no fluffy dragon there to tank for you? Might as well get used to healing tough mobs early on (they cannot one round a fully defensive warrior). AE ramp seems to be blown way out of proportion, I've looked at logs from both times we've won the event and Shadow of Luclin is much worse as far as AE ramp damage goes (really, only seen one or two melee die so far to Commander ramp -- we don't tank with the dragon either). If you can win the conventional way (ie: you have the class make-up to do so) then why would you choose to do it the easier way? I can understand using the dragon if you have a single warrior in your raid and low(ish) healers but deliberately taking the alternative when you're fully capable just seems silly. It's good practice both for your tanks and the rest of your guild if you're equipped to deal with it. If you aren't, well, there's the dragon. There seems to be this misconception that "tank and spank" is the super no-brains/skill required strategy. I'm not sure where this came from as there's usually a whole lot more going on w/ keeping a player tank up vs an NPC tank, especially in the realm of synergy. Take a look at what classes can assist in keeping a player tank up, build your tank groups around that and have a talk with your healers/warriors. It's very possible to keep defensive warriors alive on both Commander and Kanteer.
Draego, if *you* let the clockwork do all the work in that mission, that doesn't surprise me. Most groups, however, tanked Lady Envy. And Kreacher I'm sure my guild wasn't the only one still farming t1 and t2 when t3 opened. How many do you know of that only did those two raids each week? Jesus, think a little.
What's the cheesiest tactic of them all? Everyone on the raid being required to read and familiarize themselves with a walk-through spoiler before even setting foot inside the zone. Even the top guilds get into the beta and have their strategy worked out by day one. They're concerned with being first, and that's fine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, it's just not my cup of tea. I used to run a spoiler-free raiding guild. It was a lot of fun, and having folks who are ready and capable of reacting to whatever is thrown at them is an entirely different level of play than having a bunch of people capable of playing simon says.
Group "raid" missions spoil the strategy more than anything else these days. I understand the lore reason for their existence but it's kind of lame that they are scaled down carbon copies. They could at least use different mechanics.
Well no spoiler Glimpse (first T4 raid in RoF) you would likely figure out the add and AE mechanics pretty quickly. Then part 2 starts and everyone dies. Rez and rebuff, do part 1 again. Everyone dies. Rez and rebuff again, do part 1 again. Everyone dies... Eventually with most of the raid doing nothing they wouldn't do on a random trash mob you will get past part 2. Then part 3 starts and everyone dies. Rez and rebuff, do part 1 and 2 again. Might figure out part 3 pretty quickly, but again it has nothing to do with player abilities. Then part 4 starts and if this is your first kill with your likely gear level you will have a pretty limited amount of time to figure it out before the raid wipes. Once again it has nothing to do with player abilities. Thinking things through and players reacting worked when that meant mez, charm, kite, root, don't use fire, save burn for 30%, switch to adds, etc. Modern raids spoiler free would basically consist of someone who did the group mission or joined a serverwide channel suggesting something to try and a bunch of wipes until that happened. Spoiler: No, I'm born on Sunday, it's not me. Well if your computer clock wasn't set to US Pacific time when you created the character you might have been born on a Saturday or Monday.
Because it is easier? Your response it pretty typical of a warrior. Your class would prefer to walk barefoot in the snow to someplace where it is optional to even go to, never mind putting on shoes and taking the car.
I suppose that's cool if you like telling every melee and tank in the raid to basically afk for the next 20 mins. I prefer allowing everyone to participate.
I never said I let it do the work for me, and I have proven you have seen tactics like this before and it is nothing new to you. So now you have revealed yourself to be a squeaky wheel with nothing better to do than complain. Your hypocritical comments clearly state: Well here is some feedback for you, completely laced with smart*** sarcasm; my advice is that you go get yourself some **** grease, so you can stop squeaking already. So, in response to your questions and concerns The approach you have taken is a complete attempt to undermine the authority of guild appointed officials over you, because you don't like how something is done. Trying to bring the problem here in hopes that your guild leader(s) and officers don't make the connection to your in-game character, in whatever CHEESE attempt to avoid being deguilded or whatever else, is just sad and pathetic. Clearly you fear in-game retribution by your guild, since you intentionally avoid mentioning the guild name.
What the OP calls cheese tactics, I just call creative game play. As long as it's not an exploit, I think finding alternate methods of winning an event are some of the most fun aspects of the game.
Mindbender, One thing to realize is days of old are gone. By that I mean, long gone is the days where guilds (regular guilds, I'm excluding the trailblazers here) farm content over and over until much of it's core membership are geared before moving onto new content. More and more, those mid level guilds are pushing into the new content quicker (some by Dev design in making easy first raids, some by player pressure, etc.) and they just aren't going to be as geared or ready as a guild who trailblazes through and has time to do proper gearing. And since very few guilds actually do top down (tank) gearing first, you're going to end up with the mix of approaches. You say they 'aren't needed' for the win. Many guilds I know, will try your approved 'tank it straight up' approach and find they can't handle that. Whether their tanks aren't geared strong enough, their healers can't heal well enough (or handle too many divisions/split focus), whether DPS isn't able to be split focus either - there are reasons why a lot of guilds will do things a certain approach. And there is no "right" way. I was speaking with someone from a top guild on the WK2 raid. Their guild can beat the entire event in 20 minutes; and they've heard it takes some other guilds an hour+ right now. Different strats and capabilities. I have no idea personally how a guild can tank a 100k+ a hit hitter (it is a raid we're working on right now so I have experienced all phases of it except the win of course).
The same way you can tank Kanteer in DH2 who hits for 90k. Except that 107k hits plus AE is just a bit too much even for the top geared tanks, so your tank WILL randomly get 1-rounded, and then it becomes a matter of random luck vs available resources: will you run out of defensive tanks before Galenth runs out of hp? That is how this event is done in 20 min. If all tanks die first, then it's more like 30 min with throwing pets and melee invuln discs at it for a few min until the tanks can use defensive again. The alternative is letting the dragon tank and range DPSing Galenth. That's the 1 hr way. We don't have the patience for this (or rather, we do have the resources for the 20-30 min way, which not a lot of guilds do), but it works.
The DH2 boss is weaker than the WK2 boss. The DH2 boss hits a bit lower, has lower accuracy, does not rampage, and does not AE rampage. The WK2 boss is, well, ....a boss? We tank both straight up, and burn them out. Sure, a few tanks might die, but that's part of a tank's job description. However, we do understand that not all guilds have the roster makeup and support to tank freight trains straight up. Other guilds are welcome to do whatever they wish, so long as it is within the rules of the game. They are doing nothing wrong, they are just doing it differently, and there is nothing wrong with that. More power to them.
Well for starters you have 268 characters on Magelo with 10k or more unbuffed AC who are mostly tanks. Then you have another 140 who have atleast 9750ac and so on. Then you have people who haven't updated recently or don't use Magelo at all. To tank a hard hitting raid mob you want as many of those tanks and as high on the list as you can get. Even the people at the very top of the list can be 1-rounded but the higher you are the less likely that is to happen and the more you have the less impact one person dying will have. Once people have spent enough hours with the Dragon and/or pets tanking or simply dying to the event they will likely come to appreciate the concept of gearing tanks first and possibly even help those tanks get augs, Hero AA and such. If the guild just wants to worry about what is fair and for the tanks to get 1/70 of the loot same as everyone else the consequence will be having trouble with events with the hardest hitting bosses which can also lead to those tanks moving to other guilds who do prioritize gearing tanks and best of luck if that happens.
I took your previous reference as a generalization. I have done no raiding in Cotf so please excuse me for not knowing event specifics. The rest of it you covered, as there are plenty of guilds that do not have solid rosters and their raiding progression would be at an end if not for the easier option. I have seen plenty of pet tanking and as a melee..its boring. I have summoned a bunch of throwing knives on the Mino in Xrobb and taken the liberty of making a sandwich, using the toilet, going to the store for beer etc while my toon chunks away. Overly relaxing and boring. It also works. Saying that it is nice to have everyone participate in their "traditional" roles is great but at the end of it all, a win is a win. Otherwise I agree with most here. The ability to improvise, as long as it is within the bounds of the rules is what matters. Just as an aside, Warriors particularly and tanks in general tend to be the traditionalists and tend to keep strats as tank centric as possible more often than not and thus tend to be a bit territorial. Not all but some. Mostly because they do represent the most investment of gear and time and thus need to be legitimized in terms of that investment. Some of my raiding time was in guilds where all we did was raid gear tanks while everyone else was expected to gear up with group stuff since there was not enough winning happening. It wasn't good for morale. Especially when the tanks expected support on raids but then logged off when it was group time. I honestly don't give a F who or what tanks as long as the outcome is a dead something or another and a chest. Getting there and kicking the feet up is not so bad at times, especially when it is B's to the wall IRL every other waking moment. That's why an easy mode is nice sometimes.
wow ALL this cheese and no wine?? so thinking outside the box and coming up with strats to overcome some of the ridiculous ideas of the devs on raids is a bad thing? kiting is a exploit now? but a 110k hitting boss with AE rampage that can one round the top two tanks in EQ is ok?? Call it what you want, its a raid, its a war if you will, and you do what it takes to win in either case, and because you come up with something outside the box doesnt make you cheesy or exploiting stuff. an EXPLOIT is like back in the good old day of the overthere as a necro and fearing a bird into a wall and having your pet attack it from behind so you wouldnt have to kite it. The mechanic of the animal to just not walk anywhere else but the wall, until Sony fixed that and it would then act normal and walk all over the place as it should. To compare that to a dragon that IS intended to beat on something until spurred to do so is comparing apples and oranges.
