Mag's beam kiteing

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Booger, Nov 30, 2012.

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  1. Sanh Elder

    This line of thinking doesn't make sense to me. You say "the real issue is the proper SoE department not handling the offenders, not the spell itself."

    I contend that its the other way around. It's rather the spell that's the problem, not the offenders.

    Why wouldn't these people use whatever means they have at their disposal to maximize their xp gains? Especially when its apparently ok with the powers that be. It's apparently ok to gain hundreds of AA an hour. It's apparently ok to lag zones and disrupt other players. (Myself as well as others i know have petitioned, to no avail. Instead, one of the petitioners got banned. Chew on that.). Why else would they allow this charade to go on this long?

    It's exasperating that they refuse to implement such a simple fix. Limiting the number of mobs that the spell affects. The actual number can be compromised on between players and developers. My suggestion is about 8. This cuts to the root of the problem, without affecting other classes.

    The majority of mages should not have a problem with this. Because the majority of mages are not exploiting beaming.... right?
  2. Daegun Augur

    Make beam spells pbaoe and be done with this mess.

    One little fix and one big problem goes away.

    I do find it funny that many months ago every thread I brought up as this fad started to plague Bertox was quickly locked/deleted and lots of people came out saying this zone lag issue was a lie - or that my top of the line gaming rig was somehow inadequate and to blame.
    svann likes this.
  3. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    Except it wouldn't stop the problem, they would still pull large swarms, but killing them would take longer.

    These are the people who would train you for your good XP/Loot camp if they weren't doing this.

    It's a People problem, it doesn't have a Technological fix until we design a brain implant for sociopathy.

    Just be glad they are getting their kicks in a game instead of murdering old ladies for fun.
    Genoane likes this.
  4. svann Augur

    I dont see that the fact that they can beam kite is a problem. But they should not be allowed to exploit server limitations. Fix the server so it can handle mass kiting with no lag and then if they can still pull it off then more power to them. Or if that is not an option then if the server can only handle X mobs in a kite I think the server should cause anything greater than that limit to just not agro in the first place.

    Dont allow kites greater than what the server can handle correctly.
    Yinla likes this.
  5. Denial_Sinfae Augur


    So, wizards are still beam kiting?

    No. They are not.

    8 target limit would take far far far too long to kill a train of 125 mobs.

    With BURNS it takes about 11 shots to kill a mob. That's roughly 15 sets of 8. That's 165 casts, assuming no resists, no concentration lapses, and your ability to cast 165 times within the full burn window... which... quite frankly is impossible since ITC is a max of like 15 casts, and reguar TC is 18 seconds.

    You're looking at over double / triple maybe even quadruple the cast count. The mobs you kill in the area you're kiting would inevitably re-pop before you finished your train.

    Wizards are living proof it stops the BS.
  6. Falos Augur

    My numbers were not lowballed or anything on what i said about beam exp, I didn't exaggerate them in one direction or the other, and i find it hillarious that people are "chuckling" at the grey con farming excuse when it really is a case of class envy since the whole original excuse for people trying to get this nerfed is because of the griefing (and I agree the griefing needs to stop) but it's super obvious the real ageda people have here based on it constantly getting brought up is the exp mages are getting (which is not a massive amount more than what other classes were getting.

    The numbers I listed were even based on early- mid 90 levels, everytime you level up the total exp required increases by 10 percent meaning at level like 99 the amount of exp per a pull is significantly lower than what I presented. It isn't just grey con farming though that beams were good for, beams helped a ton at speeding up some bloodmoon keep quests (especially since those mobs can massively heal themselves if they die slow) and beams also help a ton with LDONS. People that are saying "oh pets are just fine for that purpose" are missing the entire point of everquest (or choosing to ignore it for the sake of their agenda)

    Technically DPS in underfoot was "just fine' yet they've continued to inflate power and people are significantly stronger than they were a mere fwe expansions ago, just because something is 'fine' doesnt mean it's not noticably slower, if something being "just fine" was ok then people wouldnt be fighting for upgrades constantly in EQ.


    I do not care for beam kiting for exp but target capping mage beams is not the way to fix it and if t hats the "fix" that goes live then I myself will start beaming for 'exp'... only difference is those massively laggy pulls will take 30 minutes to kill... maybe it's time for people to stop griefing mages for the actions of a small handful of mages misusing the ability at the moment, all it will do is make the problem worse.
  7. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    Your threat is so stupid.
  8. Falos Augur


    I've made no threat, it's more of making a point that going so aggressively after a class is only goingto serve to create a handful of mages that make a point of continuing what they are doing despite the slowed exp. When wizard beams were nerfed (they should be unnerfed), wizards had not had them very long at all. Mages have had our beam functionality for over 5 years... we're very much used to how they work in their current form and seeing so many other classes go after the class will just make a handful of mages go even harder against the handful of non mages that are trying their hardest to hurt the class.


    Attach "1: Experience Gain (-500%)" that as a 1 minute debuff recourse to mage beams and call it a day, target capping it will only make the problem worse and then lead to certain other classes losing some handy little abilities in the very near future. Mages are just the flavor of the month so to speak.
  9. Ezlano Journeyman

    People will abuse anything, and some actively look for ways to do just that. Sony would rather nerf a class, or introduce things that make it more difficult for many classes, than handling the individuals causing disruptions for other players. If Sony would enforce the policy it made, there would be no need for this thread other than jealousy.

    And by the way, Falos, Magicians aren't the flavor of the month, we are the flavor of the last few (probably more) years for folks to gripe about. :p
  10. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    I must be misinterpreting this then.
  11. Lazy automation Elder

    Just nerf all mass killing abilities or give all classes one. also if you do give mass killing abilities to everybody make them only usible in instances, if you try it in a static make them not function. there is massive lag in a lot of zones and it annoys the hell out of me because they become unplayible.
  12. Baramos Augur

    This whole thing is ridiculous. The only Mages I know who would exploit the beams in the way described have certainly gone Full R3tard.

    Just get rid of the beam in its current incarnation. Tune them for raid or mission encounters, or zones (or whatever) - plenty of suggestions around here.

    I don't ~think~ there would be much of a yelp from the Mage body-politic.

    For me, a bigger problem is when we hear other classes calling for nerfs of our CLASS defining characteristic, or any class's for that matter. I don't see beams as class-defining, but more of a relatively recent gimmick.

    Have you looked around lately? There aren't a lot of we EQ players residing in Norrath these days. And those of us left in different classes don't want to be bland, white-bread clones of other classes.

    When a Wizard gets a BOOM crit that bugs my eyes out and blows my mind - more power to you! When I see a Bard pull a named across an entire zone, and manage to bring it without the 23423423 adds that were in between I stand on my feet and cheer !

    What I will *not* do is to come on this board and cry about how OP the Bard is and boohoo I can't pull like that, or how unfair it is that Wizards get such awesome crits while we Mages have spells with the relative effect of a pop-gun.

    I *love* how unique this Mage class is. The design is a Verant/SoE stroke of genius. We're an anachronism now, and I haven't seen anything comparable in other games (although I haven't looked that hard.)

    The thing is, EQ iteself is an anachronism now, too. Like I said, look around you. We need to be thinking of banding together and eventually fighting for the survival of the game. It can't last forever....Help each other out instead of coming here and asking for nerfs of X class.

    And what I hear is not the asking for nerfs, but SCREAMING for nerfs. Take a breath! Your face is all red ! The veins on your temple are popping out ! Your head is exploding!

    Think about it, because we're all cool in our unique ways, cats and kittens. Very cool. "Did you see that Wizzie, Dave? Wow!" "Dave's not here."

    Most of us have had nerfs this year. And when nerfs of your class are called for by others on this board..... well that's just a bag-over-the-head, punch-in-the-face from your buddy who plays EQ with you.

    There is a small population of the game which posts here, but I have seen its influence pollute or enhance in-game play/politics more than once.

    Beams? So what. I say "uncle". We lived without beams and pillars for years. Throw them on the pile with Mage DoTs.

    But in the main all of us should learn to stop crying and whining about another class ability.

    And breathe.

    And smile.
    Kaenneth likes this.
  13. Sanh Elder

    If you care that much about everquest, then you should support nerfing something obviously overpowered and disruptive. Nobody likes nerfs but they are sometimes necessary for the balance and integrity of the game. The problem is that mages are taking this personally.
  14. Ezlano Journeyman

    Overpowered, that is laughable. Experience can be gained faster in a good group. Disruptive, only because Sony refuses to deal with the individual players. There is nothing game breaking in Magician Beam spells. The spell(s) are not an exploit. Purely because most classes cannot do it is reason to remove an ability? The reason that people abuse it is reason as well? Instead of trying to get a class nerfed, one that has experienced many over this past year, why not place the blame where it belongs. The outcry should not be at an ability but at Sony for not enforcing PNP and those FEW who take it to the extreme by removing game enjoyment for others for their own gain.
    Enkel likes this.
  15. Sanh Elder

    The fact that the xp comparison is even made between a mage beaming and not even just a group, but rather a "good" group says it all. "Experience can be gained faster in a good group" Read that sentence again. Keep in mind that this is a mage vs a group. Not even just a group but a good group. And even then, you might.

    What this screams to me is downplaying the matter. To top it off, by many accounts mage beaming has the potential to exceed that of even a good group, significantly. In fairness I don't have a mage and have never beamed, but i've witnessed it. I believe these accounts from what I've witnessed. And one thing for sure, all sorts of funny stuff started happening in the zone when this was taking place.

    As for the statement "Purely because most classes cannot do it is reason to remove an ability?" No one that i can see is proposing to remove the ability, much less removing the ability because "most classes cannot do it". Rather, I/we support changing the ability because it is overpowered, and it is being abused to the point of being disruptive to other players. The fix is a simple one, and would not affect anyone not abusing it in any significant manner.

    I partly agree with you on your last point at blaming Sony, but rather because they have not acted thus far in rectifiying this situation with a very simple fix (limiting the beam targets) but rather letting it go on this long.
  16. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    The people who used to beam as Wizards are now beaming as Mages.

    Proof it DOSN'T stop it, they'll just move on to another disrupting activity.
  17. Sanh Elder

    The problem with beaming is twofold. It is overpowered, AND it is disruptive.

    Even if they were to fix the servers so that it could accommodate kiting of this scale, that still leaves the problem that gaining xp at that rate is overpowered. AND, other players would still be disrupted, even if not in a server lag way. Regular players who are grinding, xping, questing or just plain running through would be affected. That's the nature of this tactic. It's disruptive.

    I'm of the opinion that mass killing of anything over about 15 mobs at a time for any xp mob is disruptive, regardless of the class. I don't usually express that though because although I don't like it, it's tolerable. But 100+ current mobs? Get out of here.

    Why should everything have to revolve around this tactic? Why should everything but the obvious be done, in order to preserve it - especially when it is overpowered and disruptive? You want them to fix the servers so it can be business as usual, do you want them to bend time and space next?
  18. Baramos Augur

    Your first line is, "If you care that much about everquest, then you should support nerfing something obviously overpowered and disruptive."

    Take another look at my post. If you read it carefully you will find that you and I agree on many points. If you still don't understand, please PM me, and I'll explain it to you further, in friendly fashion. But right now you seem to like to poke pointy fingers in others' chests in several posts in order to make your point. But that tactic does just the opposite.

    I'll will say about the idea of "overpowered" that class spikes of power such as this wax and wane over the years. After 15 years, I don't get much excited about that, as a rule, anymore. I'm certainly not taking it "personally."

    And, btw, Mages have been on the other side of that power curve. ( Our pets were stupid, ran away, would "poof" when other players invis'd us out of group, couldn't dual wield, became wisps of smoke that would evaporate if a MOB breathed on them from end of PoP to Omens, broke mez's, attacked any MOB which tossed an AoE, and had the punching power of my 16 year old daughter. Just to name a few... ) Heck, Mages were nearly extinct, existing as mod-rod and coh bots existing in larger numbers than "mains" during Velious, PoP, and a good portion of GoD.

    I do think zone disruption of the degree I'm hearing about demands a fix, hence my position above.

    Also, I won't blindly support nerfing of anything until I have taken a long, close look at it. Unless you walk that class's walk, it is often difficult to understand the talk.

    I've looked at the beaming long enough to have my eyes open. It seems true that dorks are lagging zones and making complete jerks of themselves with the beams.

    Please do not mistake those players for Mages. ;)
    Kaenneth likes this.
  19. Vlerg Augur

    Then Baramos, modifying the beam line of spell so those jerks cannot lag out entire zone wouldn't affect mages heh? capping target, or beams being PBAoE wathever...

    Yes, they may move to another class and disrupt zone with it, then we'll get that ability fixed... the fixing/balancing cycle of an MMO don't have an end... but to be fair, they can't do with it wizzies anymore, rogue and berserker can only handle 5-6 mob at once, maybe 10 with top-notch raid gear.. rangers have no real reasons to pull 80 mob at once since headshot is single target. only raid-geared top-notch SK can swarm in ( 2 expansions old) content ( aka Valley) and still risk dying... but yes, if those jerk find new way to disrupt zones, we will ask SoE to fix those ways!

    And yes, I remember the time where mages were nearly extinct, or the velious days where mages would hardly do anything but drop mod rod on the ground so clerics could spam them... but right now, mages ( without beams) still have a very nice cozy spot in raid-dps, and are Kings of the group game with their pets
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  20. Denial_Sinfae Augur


    That's only proof that they will move on to the next beam. Solution? Get rid of beams. PBAE fine.
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