Non-Raiding Necromancers

Oh, if you were only in the know...

I tell ya what non-necro, how about you pm Eli and ask him yourself?

Why dont you take a ride through the past years since Death Bloom went live, see if you find any necro's "not doing anything". Theres far more to this nerf than you're understanding. You kind of hit the nail on the head in your own post however like all the others you dont have a clue.

Ill give you a hint: it isnt mana he's after

Actually I am very much aware that this nerf was not done because of mana. Go talk to someone who hasn't played this game for 14 years like that. Mana controls dps for casters so when you nerf a mana regen ability you're nerfing dps sometimes unintended and most of the time its intended like this.

But here's the point your ignorance about non necros posting in thread cannot see past. He made up his mind on how he was going to address a glaring issue he felt needed to be and instead of giving him other ideas on how to address that issue people argued he was wrong and still right now argue he was wrong.

It's simple he made up his mind no amount of arguing on this thread or others will do you any good. So accept the change and think of ways to make what he actually intended to do happen in other ways that you can accept and live with.

The fact is raiding necros are in here replying because they want this undone because of raids they don't care about group necros its just a way for them to complain about a change without actually saying why they're mad.

You speak of our ignorance, yet you obviously do not have any idea how the necromancer class works.

You think mana controls our dps. You think we are just like other casters whose dps is proportional to their mana bar. You are wrong.

You know nothing about the necromancer. Do not think to tell us to just accept this nerf, you have no understanding of the ramifications.

Be gone, shoo, flaunt your ignorance in a different thread.

-Egg

^ that makes no sense

As has been mentioned repeatedly, mana is not an issue on raids for necros. The dot lineup used during raids are efficient and long lasting. I'd wager that few necros would even need to use DB at all during contemporary raids. With the lack of being able to dump effectively and juggling efficient long lasting spells - between a single DB and blood magic ...

There's no reason for raiding necros to need deathbloom. Knowing that fact, though, there is still no grounds for the nerf in raid content either.

Eli's intended target for the nerf was in fact the raiding necro and their dps. But if you werent as you say, ignorant, you would know that path isnt through Death Bloom.

I cant spell out what everyone has tried to for 650 posts on this thread. It's clear you know nothing of this class and therefor aren't qualified to comment, regardless of your 14 years. Though one would think, after 14 years, you would have some sort of idea of what a necromancer is and how they work.

It is ignorance like yours that has led to this nerf , the dot crit nerf, and the upcoming epic nerf. It is that same ignorance that is killing this game.

Slasher, Battleaxe, Bigfitz, you guys dont realize the impact you have.

Whats more important: The size of your tank or how fast you can refill it.

BTW kids...in case you did not know what deathbloom does since non-necros shop here too:

Death Bloom

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Description

5: Decrease Hitpoints by 4000 per tick

6: Increase Mana by 2400 per tick

Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View
Mana: 0

Casting Time:

2
Recast Time: 0

Fizzle Time:

0
Range: 100

Location:

Any
Time of Day: Any

Interruptable:

Yes
Short Buff Box: Yes

Target Type:

Self
Spell Type: Beneficial

Category:

Absorb Damage
Source: Live 10/04
Messages

Cast on you: You feel the cold embrace of death upon you.

Cast on other: Soandso is covered by death's embrace.

Effect Fades: The embrace fades.

Game Description

Converts 4000 health into 2400 mana per tick for up to 42 secs (7 ticks).^0

Basically, its necro canni. The limiting factor in this equation is hit points.

Can't tell what you are trying to say, but what he (Aeg) is trying to say is more mana does not increase our (burst) DPS. This ability does nothing to increase our max DPS. Obviously this (DB) increases our sustained DPS, especially when we don't have support classes feeding us mana. There are only so many DoTs we can stack before they start dropping off, and when the higher DPS DoTs drop, we lose DPS.

Tank size vs fill rate ...

How fast the tank fills is irrelevant is you can't empty it fast enough to deplete the tank before the event is over. Raiding necros aren't going to see an impact during raids because they already don't need it in its previous state during raids. Cutting the timer to 10 minutes won't do jack.

Where it matters is in the group game where you're constantly killing and being forced to use dramatically less efficient swift dots and swarms to contribute in any meaningful way. Unlike the very highly efficient dot lineups used in raids, DB has been THE staple that allows necros to maintain reasonable dps in the long haul.

The change they made failed to achieve what they wanted and caused measurable harm on a completely different group of folks that were already performing marginally in the group game.

If that isn't failure, I don't know what is.

What I mean, is you can have a huge mana capacity, but it refills slow. A big empty tank is still empty. A small tank that is always replenished faster than you can drain it is what you would think is best, right? When I played a cleric raiding, I never cared how big my mana pool was. I only cared about how slowly I could empty it and how fast I could fill it back up.

Gotcha, yes

What needs to happen is this.

1) Elidroth returns DB to its 3 minute recast.
2) Elidroth makes a post on here stating "I want to #####, here are 3 options I think will achieve #####, pick 1.
3) The necro community and Elidroth discuss .
4) Elidroth implements the fair agreed option in the next CoTF update.

Good luck with that. Because the Devs have a long and storied, rich history of doing exactly what players think "needs to happen", especially Elidroth.

Wake up.

Doesn't affect us on raids one bit, circle of mana 3, bard song, paragon and mods rods cover a greater portion of our mana on raids. Did every t1 raid the other night went below 60 percent once.

The necro community unlike the others are not divided between raiding and grouping. WE ARE NECRO's all in the same. With the focus on group gear also being above 0percent other then stats which does not add damage and the slight 25 percent possible more focus and the pet focus, the group necro and raid necro are very VERY close

So, you know what we think, and you know what we do care about, and what we don't care about.

That's some impressive skill that you have.

Just to reiterate, this effects raid necromancers exactly the same when they are grouping as it does groupers. We use the same spells as groupers when we group that have the same in-efficiencies, and with the same lack of mana support.

And I now many pages back Xnao posted some spell count parses of very long raids like Beast Domain when it was current that show he didn't use Deathbloom. So really we aren't lying when we say Deathbloom hurts groupers much more than raiders or that more mana does not equal more dps for necros. There is no secret raid necro agenda on this issue.

It's been said several times in this thread. The Nerf has 0 effect on the intended target. (So called Raid Necros during a Raid)

I'm not sure if this repeating that a nerf has no effect is such a good strategy as the devs may decide they have not gone far enough and look to further measures to put a collar on the mana issue, which in turn may affect the Necros who only participate in fast killing Group play.

I also find it humorous how some go on and on about how anybody who does not play a Necro has a clue about this vastly mysterious class , then goes on to compare themselves to other classes.

A tire has a specific funtion on a car. It has a rather unique function, in fact. But, it is still just one part of a car. In some ways, it can be compared to a steering wheel, and in some ways, it cannot.

But what is clear is that you don't ask advice on what tires to get from someone in the Victorian age who only rides horses...

Unfortunately, that's the kind of advice that non-Necros have been giving... From "use a mount" to "don't group". If you still don't get it, I can't help you.

This assumes that the devs are not only incompetent, but just don't care...

Then again, you may be on to something.