All classes/races available, Random Loot, Luclin Start TLP

Just unlocking the classes is all the work that is needed? Heck you have already expanded the work by saying the spell vendors need to be unlocked and those are not the only things that will need to get updated for them classes.

This has never been about the amount of work to unlock the classes but the design intent and if they should be unlocked in the first place.

these 2 statements contradict eachother, and jchan already said it was possible... Who loses out. Lets say I play cleric, thats my class, i want to reroll on the next server. I see it has bst / ber earlier than when they are actually supposed to come out. how does that effect me at all?

No one playing bst/bst would say "well, when they come out on a nromal server i can get all these aa's, so im sure i can get them in classic too"

People coming to the forums saying "bst in kunark should get this or that" is no different then when you see people complain about VP key, or "why cant we get this piece to the shawl quest in velious vs luclin." or anything else. No tlp gets launched without some sort of the complaining you are worried about, it doesnt stop them from trying new things like mischief and vaniki. devs dont see that as a lose lose situation if it gets more people to play the game

What's needed is a Heroic 100 Server starting in CotF with ALL Race/Class combos available but unlike Miragul no TrueBox at all

I never said it wasn't possible, just that there are issues around unlocking those classes before the expansion that they unlock in. I have also stated that this isn't something that the devs seem to want to do as they have avoided commenting on these types of threads and the only time the classes have been unlocked at the start the expansion was as well.

This has never been a debate about it being possible or not rather the issues with doing it as well as the devs desire to do it or not

Why are you constantly speaking on the Developer's behalf? If the developers don't like the idea, we won't see the idea implemented in May. They could be laughing at our "suggestion" with a maniacal laugh for all we know.

We're giving them suggestions not demands, while you're quoting ancient historical forum figures without a name, link, or post to counter every argument. I can do that too. Five years ago, a Daybreak developer said that an all class start would be great.

You can go ahead and delete your next reply with "I'm just saying what the developers have said in the past." We don't have access to your memory, so I guess we'll just have to believe you about everything.

Someone get Waring an apple and a Misty Thicket Pie, so he can hand it to the developers in front of the forum. Maybe Waring can help clean up the forum and dust off the chalk erasers too. Isn't Waring such a good replier, class!!!

I mean... before mischief, random loot didnt seem like something they wanted to do either. the reason of "they havent done it before" isnt a good way to get new things in this game is it?

I also dont think its a debate about either of those things. I have posted, as well as others, and posted the pros of having the classes in earlier, and you have been trying to post the reason why they shouldnt. and so far that reason is epic quests. im very interested in what the others are. "devs probably dont want to" is not a reason not to do it. before mischief if someone said they would go through every expansion and randomize the loot tables just for one tlp everyone wouldve called that person crazy. but tangible reasons why it shouldnt happen are what im curious about. like "oh if beastlords are in the game in classic they would be able to solo naggy. this is an issue" then i would say "wow that is an issue, that probably shouldnt happen"

People have been requesting this for years now and the only developer response we have seen is a server created with those expansions unlocked which also included the classes being unlocked. This is not a new request but one that has been made many times over the years.

Before Mischief random loot wasn't really talked about as far as I am aware. Having all the classes and races unlocked in classic has been brought up time and time again with no real responses from the devs. The only time they had all classes unlocked at a launch was when the expansions have also been unlocked.

The devs have also said in the past that they like to preserve the expansions as they existed at the time as much as possible and unlocking the classes would go against that.

Before mischief devs also posted in the 2020 “ask a dev” interview that free trade takes away from the game and progression on tlp servers. Then we got mischief. Not bashing mischief it is an amazing server and I’ve loved it, but clearly they went against what a dev posted on the official discord.

Then Jchan also went onto a twitch stream a little later in 2020 and when asked if bst/ber could be in classic, she responded “sure they could, but I’m not sure people would want that”. So, not sure where else to try to show devs that it is in fact something wanted than by posting it here.

People asked for a free trade TLP for years and they finally did it. People have been asking for this type of class unlock TLP as well, so maybe the devs will hear it this time around. Mischief is already popular, so don’t give us a Mischief clone - give us a free trade TLP with BST and BER unlocked from the start. Everyone says the the TLPs have been stale rinse and repeats until Mischief, so why not keep it interesting for the paying players? I can’t imagine randomizing loot to certain levels ranges is easier for them than putting in these classes and a few spell vendors.

Yes sir! Free trade plus bst/ber to start. I’m here for it!

You are right about that but what we got was a random loot server that had free trade as an addon, it wasn't a free trade with random loot as a bonus. One of the problems they would have had with a random loot server without free trade is a lot of loot rotting that no one can use. Random loot gets rid of some of the problems around free trade and free trade gets around the problems that random loot would have.

Yes they have said it is possible and no one has said it wasn't possible. The fact remains is that players have asked for it over the years and the devs still have not decided to act on that. Because of that I think it is safe to assume that they either don't want to do it because it doesn't follow the ideal of progression through the games history or that they see issues with it.

And free trade was the right choice and they have to know its the reason the server is so popular. Regardless its the exact opposite of what was said, secondary attribute or otherwise.

First you said "devs have avoided commenting on it" and now i tell you well, thats not true and gave you a place where they did, now you just change youre words and say they havent decided to act on it... well duh, if they had acted on it and yelinak had bst/ber to start then we wouldnt be here would we.

And now you are just making up stuff about "because it doesnt follow the ideal progression." Or they havent done it because it wasnt posted about every month like a level locked progression was for the 5 years before we got that.

I wouldn't want to start a beastlord before Luclin. It's not just the epic. For example there are no quests for cool items in PoSky. Who really wants to raid content when there is no reward for your class?

They would need to do a lot of back fill for itemization and rewards and introduce new quests and items, is it really worth it?

You are right in that free trade was needed to ensure that a random loot server would work but again that was a random loot server with free trade as an addon and not a free trade server.

Also if you look back at the many threads over the years requesting that all classes be available in classic you will note that there is a lack of dev response in general. Just because you point to a single comment on it doesn't change the fact that this has been requested many times over the years and devs have been silent on it. They know that players have been asking for this for a long time but there is a reason why they have not done anything about these requests.

As for the ideal progression they have said that in the past that they don't want to change things to much over what was available when the expansions first launched.

I cant find one dev response on any of the level locked progression server threads, then bam, vaniki. I dont think that means anything.

Ahh, im struggling to find the ideal progression comments. I usually do alright at searching. was it a forum post? could you point me in the direction.

So a quick search shows that there is between 1,784 items for int classes up to about 4,365 for plate classes and you are saying that you would rather start at level1 with 0 items in luclin/god vs playing through the first 3-6 expansions with 7 less items to choose from than others.

Classic: Fear trash has sets for both, naggy and vox has gear for both, inny has gear for both, ct has gear for both. not feeling the need for sky is honestly a blessing, but yes its one place they only have golden efreeti items and then the gloves off trash, so less than everyone else (tho you can say vox doesnt have anything for a monk, yet monks still help kill it. Naggy has nothing for a cleric, yet clerics still show up to raid...)

Kunark: There are kunark sets for both bst and ber that Trak and VS can drop, class spells drop from (sky), tal/sev/fay, and many items are all/all. anything either class would want to use from VP, they are able to equip. Spear of constriction, robe of the azure sky, yunnbs earring for bst, frozen z, sword of rile, grey suede boots for ber.

and then by velious i cant see anything they arent already added onto the loot lists for.

Sure, but they have also started progression servers with multiple expansions unlocked that go far enough to unlock all the classes that people have wanted to start with over the years. The fact that they have done that but not letting all the classes be there in classic does point to them not wanting to unlock them in classic.

Not sure what to point you to but they have done what they can to keep things in era on a server and that includes when classes unlock.

Great point.

100 might be a bit late, but no truebox I think has to be a feature of any heroic-start server unless they retroactively add in a Heroic upgrade below 85 & I don't see that happening.

Bingo.

If people want something changed they have to make the devs aware of what they want, and on this topic they have, repeatedly.

Warring's entire premise is "the proof they don't want to do it is that they haven't yet" - this is a flawed premise.