Secrets of Faydwer - 12 flags for 54 people?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hamshire, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. Hamshire Augur

    So I don't know all the details on this stuff, I just know that it should be fixed and or should of been fixed a long time ago and the dated throttling has and will kill smaller guilds punishing them because they cannot split raid it. It also makes people personally feel punished when they aren't apart of the first 12, 24, 36, ect, ect to get a flag, why haven't I gotten mine yet? Do they not like me as much as I thought they did? I have seen this happen first hand multiple times and it sucks having to explain to someone why they are in the middle and or the back of the line because of a dated system.

    My original post was just about SoF because another fourm poster named Protocol did the work listing the raids and flags in exact at what needs to be changed and why but the problem extends beyond SoF through SoD and HoT. Its the exact same problem that has been put in place for the exact same reason but I don't know all the raids, flag counts, ect thus I didn't list them.

    Someone with this knowledge and or who wants to put in the effort to make a detailed list similar to my original post should step up. Hell I even think it would be worth and or a good idea to make a small Youtube video on this topic and send it to them but all the raids, flags, and reasons why it needs fixed need to be prescent if someone wants to do this.
    Nick Danger and dentenks like this.
  2. MischiefTLP Augur

    Here is a detailed list of fixes.

    1) Require only the character requesting the raid to be flagged in any expansion that is available without a purchase whether it's a TLP or not.
  3. FranktheBank Augur

    They shouldnt be. SoD has a huge amount of content to raid
  4. Ythera Augur

    I agree with both sides of the argument. I'd like to see the keying doubled to 24 and also, guilds should practice splitting and small raiding targets so as to go through progression at a faster rate.
  5. Pixnmode New Member

    Even if a guild is "smaller" and only has like 45-50 raiding toons it doesn't even matter in SoF though. you can 2 split the first 5 raids the first night then again in 5 days ... You can still be in MMM in the first week and clear that once. Then wait another 5 days and clear MMM again and start the first 7/10 raid bosses in crystallos. You're still in Crystallos within the first 3 weeks and it's a 3 month expac so that leaves you with over 2 months of farming crystallos even as a small guild. Guaruntee you will be burnt out of cryst by the end of the expac. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be even as a small guild most of Mangler had the expac beat within the first month.
    Ishbu likes this.
  6. Xhartor Augur

    As you move down the chain of guilds, you get less output per player and more boxes in the raid squad. Lower average attendance for raids too. Guilds don't have as much control over raid composition, so having enough healers/tanks/ect to be able to split to able isn't as easy.

    Didn't Mangler have a half lockout event running for the week of 2 of SoF?
  7. 3rdconix Elder

    Again, missing the point. You are still projecting this as exclusively a player issue when it's quite obvious is a design issue. SoF was originally designed as a one-year expansion, notably the progression and it's artificial throttling mechanics of having limited flags per raid. Because TLPs are not a year, devs need to adjust and tune the content to maintain similar ratio under normal raiding composition and progression IE 1 raid doing the progression as a guild together. Guilds shouldn't have to split raid, hop on one foot while balancing an egg on a spoon between the hours of 5-8 pm in order to get into the end zone in a reasonable amount of time elapsed.

    Just because a raid guild can split the content, it doesn't mean they should be forced to or required to in order to complete the content at a reasonable rate. If a player needs to create workarounds to do the content then there is a fundamental design issue. If I buy a car and the transmission doesn't work during the lifetime of the warranty, the car company doesn't tell me to drive differently, they fix the friggen problem.

    Your solution is nonsense because you leave members out. It's a steaming load of dog turds. Stop providing player-driven workarounds for lack of proper tuning and design shortfalls of the devs.
  8. Ishbu Augur

    It doesnt really make any sense that a raid that requires more than 12 people(significantly more in this case) only flags 12 for the next tier zone. There really isnt a good reason that people who are a part of completing the raid dont all get flagged.

    That said, hyperbolizing things doesnt help the case for change. If you cant split content, then your raid force is 54 people maximum, otherwise you would have more than a full raid and have to split. With the piggy rules, it would take no more than 4 weeks to get your full raid into the final zone, still leaving 8 weeks plus the week you finished flagging, so 9 total trips if you schedule well at all.

    If you want to try and get things changed for the better, be honest about it, dont make up crap that detracts from any real point. There is a very real point to be made that only 12 flags is nonsense.

    You have only a few months left to get this point across before the only server they bother to fix long stand issues for gets to this era.
  9. Flexin Not an amateur

    So the devs give you 24 keys per kill - then we can revisit this conversation in 2 years on another TLP where someone complains that 24 keys is not enough? There's always something to complain about in EQ instead of appreciating each expansion for what it was when it was live.
  10. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    You're accusing people of lying while you apparently have literally no idea how SoF flagging works at all. You do realize Mansion isn't the final zone, right?

    You need drops from Bynn + Deepscar + Clankwrench + Spindle + Behemoth (each one dropping 12 at a time) in order to flag for Mansion. Then you need flags from Meldrath (again dropping 12 at a time) in order to enter Crystallos. And somehow you've decided that you can flag a full raid for the final zone without splitting within 4 weeks? Thanks for contributing to the discussion?
  11. 3rdconix Elder

    Who is making up anything? You seem to be though. You physically cannot flag 54 people in 4 weeks of SOF without splits.

    First of all, 4 x 12 = 48, not 54. Which 6 schmucks are you saying "sorry we decided we aren't gonna flag you, but you can be a piggy?" Also, this assumes the guild is literally only 54 people large and they all have a 100% raid attendance. That's quite the feat in and of itself. In all my years I've never been in a guild to do that.

    Second, how are you getting 2 tiers of flags done in 4 weeks without splits? Are you doing different progression than the rest of us? Do the laws of SOF progression cease to exist on your server?
  12. Wildmandaniel New Member

    Day 1- Factory, DeepScar Big bynn
    Day 6-Repeat
    Day 11 Repeat
    Day 16 Repeat 48 flags total for mansion
    Day 17 mmm
    Day 22 mmm
    Day 27 mmm
    Day 32 mm 48 flags for crystallos

    Not quite 4 weeks but not far off, could shave time if you can do mmm with 36 plus pushes.

    Still agree the 12 flags is an issue but let’s not pretend it takes half the xpac to flag.
  13. SoandsoForumUser Augur


    So your raid group doesn't have a set raiding schedule instead raiding every five days with double days and raids on the first day of the expansion release, of course that's realistic for most guilds. Those listed raids are 7 weeks.
  14. 3rdconix Elder

    48 flags =/= full raid. You're literally missing an extra week at the minimum to get the final 6 people. So let's include that and you're at 37 days. That is 5 weeks and 2 days out of 12 weeks. 44% of the expansion elapsed before getting everyone flagged into Crystallos while needing to fluctuate raid days to account for unlocks. The ridiculous hoops people need to go through to defend developers who are paid to do their job and tune this stuff, and rather put the onus on the players is mind boggling. It's astonishing really.

    Secondly, what guild raids on lockouts vs set days? The last time I saw anyone ever do that was TBL on live a half decade ago (under normal circumstances).

    Finally, what raid guild are you in that you can get the same exact 54 players to raid 30-40 days consecutively without a single person missing a raid? And let's not mention that it's going to be smack in the middle of CHRISTMAS.

    In the real world, your schedule would look something like this if you don't split:

    Day 1- Factory, DeepScar Big bynn
    Day 7 Repeat
    Day 14 Repeat
    Day 21 Repeat
    Day 28 54 flags total for mansion
    Day 35 mmm
    Day 42 mmm
    Day 48 mmm
    Day 55 mmm
    Day 60 Final MMM for Crystallos
    That means 71% of the expansion elapsed before everyone is fully flagged for Crystallos non splits doing raids on a weekly schedule.

    If you start doing MMM with 41 players (36 flagged + 5 pigs), leaving 13(!) on the bench, it would be something like this:
    Day 1- Factory, DeepScar Big bynn
    Day 7 Repeat
    Day 14 Repeat + Start MMM
    Day 21 Repeat
    Day 28 54 flags total for mansion
    Day 35 MMM
    Day 42 54 flags for Crystallos
    50% of the expansion elapsed before walking into Crystallos.

    Basically, instead of the devs actually doing their job, we've seen:
    1. Split
    2. Raid on unlocks and not a regular schedule.
    3. Don't actually fully flag your guild, only 48.
    4. Start raiding Factory, Deepscar, Bynn, and all of MMM in a single day when you get enough to do so because everyone has 4-5 hours to just raid in a day.
    5. Raid on Christmas Eve according to one poster's schedule (lmfao)
    6. Be in a guild in which every single player has 100% raid attendance.
    7. ???

    Any more brilliant ideas left in this think tank?
    Mithra and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  15. Xhartor Augur

    It also requires leadership that knows and understands the raid events. MMM has several events with more technical scripts. There going to be a learning curve your first couple runs. The bulk of most TLP guilds are made up by players who don't know the game past PoP. By the time get to TSS you guild is likely have to figure stuff out from Raspers and allakhazam writes ups. On Mangler, I think AD was the only guild that had leadership which knew the raid events. They did help explain the raid events to other guilds.
    3rdconix likes this.
  16. Cicelee Augur

    I think people who talk about splitting raids is forgetting that the talent and skill level in "lower" guilds is not what it is in "higher" guilds.

    27 ROI might be able to do the DPS of 54 of the #33 guild on Live. Just because ROI can split a raid doesn't mean every Joe and Sue can.

    Note- I am not telling people to "git gud". I am making a point that not every guild can just split raid and win. And not every guild can raid every five days too. There is a reason why AOC and family/casual guilds exist- because they are not the "split raid every 5 days with maximum gear and efficiency" type of people. They want to casually experience content, and more flags will help with that.
    Genoane and Mithra like this.
  17. Ishbu Augur

    Im well aware of how it works. Perhaps you arent aware that if your raid force can do meldraths, that same force is able to split the flagging for meldraths so you can clear that the first week to start building your flags?
  18. Ishbu Augur

    If your raid can do meldraths they can split the flagging for that. You dont need a full 54 for those raids, so technically yes that is bey definition spltiting, but its not running a raid force larger than 1 split of people.


    No reason to get so testy. People at the start of this thread said it would take a lot longer, they are exaggerating.
  19. 3rdconix Elder

    The conversation is doing progression in a normalized fashion IE doing each raid as a singular entity/raid force. Your rebuttal is...split raid but it's not really a split raid because you're only splitting 54 and not more...? How is that logical at all.

    I broke it down for you above. If you want to start getting into obscure raid formats and sitting people out, sure, you can get it done faster but it's still at or near 50% of the expansion's lifetime. That's just nonsense to defend.
  20. 3rdconix Elder

    Yeah I haven't done SOF since uhhh when did it release, 2007? I need to refresh the old brain. I'm sure I'll kickstart the memory sometime this week doing it on test/live, but guilds that are run by TLP veterans are certainly at an advantage.