Did I mention my other thread, Neriak 4th gate. That mission was UNDOABLE, as in the midway named, he had level 100s group HP for real for real and did for real for real level 100s group damage. When I was only in 80s at that time. I have done plenty of different HA's, how do you think I stumbled upon Bixie Warfront Yrelia. See this is the 115 thinking vs the returner thinking. Its appreciated that you letting me know that the rewards good if I do em all but, I can't some are just too much, overscaled, I don't have 115 on standby just clearing everything for me, like they leveling there box. I'm a returner, I'm tweaked for everything nor do I have a 115 I bring along to make life easy. Yes kudos to those 22 straight years, yes many of us are returners, like maybe you came back in EoK. But as time goes on since the 14 years over a decade of not having returner zones. The longer the time pasts, the recent returners struggle even more. DUE TO 14 years AND CONTINUING of no returner/catchup zones. Like I go through content, but I'm pretty much relying on buffers to give 115 buffs, so I'm pretty powerful and with those buffs its still no cakewalk. At 75 though I recommend getting the ideginous shield and getting way to 80, but late 80s and 90s it starts ramping quickly for real for real. Got these TBM missions, I'm 94 VoA category 91-95, and this TBM mission wants me to handle 98 CotF content hitting mobs, same with the 96-100, they all CotF, 2 expansions ahead. They didn't hand us free defiant crazy gear like 1-70 as well, they just handed us 2 expansions tougher content in TBM. Not many returners around to easily do these too. It was made with current end game 105.
There is a system. Shrouds. You can always scale DOWN to the grouppable level of a newcomer and play in a group. I would vote to have max level of shrouds to be bumped to , say, 90 or 95, but it is not really necessary these days. There is a level gap between lvl 70 to 85, which shrouds do not help with and the newcomers are too low to group with maxxed toons. And here is my solution - I have a lvl 95 shaman trader at bazaar for alchemy and PL'ing those lvl 70 to 85 either as actual group grind or as a task switchower bridge, when lvl 115 does the task, transfers to 95 and leaves, and then lvl 95 invites those lvl 70 toons to enjoy 140% of the level task rewards. (Very popular Falmonius's quest in PoK library and a couple other tasks in RoF).
I came back in HOT and was soundly killed almost every thing I tried. So I backed up a couple expansions and was able to do much better. And most of it was only with my ranger buffs and a healer merc. I did not worry if I had top level buffs since I died so often. And there were no more groups options then than now. There are returner/catchup zones, you just refuse to see them and want them to be instant. They are all the old expansions. As someone pointed out before each expansion has a level range.
I think he meant the other way, as in a lvl 1 can scale to 115. Thats how GW2 does it, in some zones, usually the new content. Like lvl 1 in silverwastes be scaled 80, lvl in 1 Mist wars will be scaled lvl 80. Thats what he means by it will defeat purpose of heroic 85. Because lvl 1 scaling to 115, make heroic 85 no sense at all. Thats how new games are doing it though, thats the trend. Should EQ do it, I don't think so, its in the category of WoW. Maybe if WoW does it EQ should think about it. One thing WoW does well and probably why they #1 MMORPG, is PvP Open World, TEAMS. So Sullon Zek, the old zeks that were TEAM MODE. They went with Horde and Alliance it was good they kept going and its still good. EQ used to be team based but it went in a weird direction and now it doesn't even matter if evil, good, neutral. In WoW if your HORDE, you don't even think about raising Alliance faction. In EQ if your evil, you think about raising some of the good factions. This is for another thread though. As for the xp transfer, yeah thats good, I think TBM does xp always at certain lvl though, because if you that one mission, you get 60% xp at 75, because its 6% 105 xp? Something like that. I believe if you do certain it gives like 3% 115 xp, but if you be in raid and just collect all the nameds and what not, you'll ding a couple from it being a 70s 80s. I looked at one thing and it said 94 to 20% into 101. So some tasks will ding you many levels. I'm not looking for easy ways, I'm looking for returners enjoying my way to 115. But I aint planning on 2.5 years, I want to see progress everyday, like half level, quarter level, or a level in 3 hours of play. Which I can see, doing the Bixie Warfront grind. It would be nice to do actual zone and get that xp though. Hotzones doesn't give squat at 94. Maybe if I'm mass killing with a 115 it will, but I'm a returner, I aint mass killing any yellows or reds.
You keep saying “catch up zone”, but I don’t think that word means what you think it means <insert gif that everyone knows what I’m referring to” What’s the difference between an expansion having zones from level 80-120 or having multiple expansions cover level 80-120? Is the 80-120 xpac supposed to drop gear that’s supposed let you take on level 100 mobs at 81? Does a white con at 94 give you 71% of a level? Like how exactly are you supposed to be “catching up” in this supposed zone that you’re wanting? Are you wanting better/faster rewards for less work (aka another self played power leveling process…like merc 2.0?). Or is every gear drop supposed to be BiS for 15 levels so you don’t have to worry about upgrading gear? I’ve been molo’ing on my monk (one I mentioned earlier in this thread) and stepped away from my fresh 115s (also a returning player here within the last 2 months). And I’m not having any issues. I’m now 99. I’m getting about a leave per play session. Granted I’m finding myself with more time recently and able to put in 2-4 hours a day thst I play if I so choose. And I’m not going through any catch up zones, I’m not being PL’d by my 115s (the second 115 is on another account that I could do it with but I’m not familiar with how Bards would do that anyway, so SoL), and I’m not complaining that things are too hard. Daily hot zone quest All 3 Gribbles (about an hour to power through with a full set of 115 buffs - do the second mission first, pop LotD at the end, and complete the first one before LotD runs out. Mega exp: roughly 50% of a level in 30 minutes) And achievements in older expansions (RoF has some decent returns for completing quests/achievements). Currently plowing through VoA achievements (level 95 expansion. See what I’m doing here) Next is CoTF, and then the infamous TDS expansion which has excellent Castaway gear, and at 106 I can purchase a set of Conflagrant gear, and power through TDS and into TBM where it will no longer be over powered. And then into EoK and RoS and I’m going to do whatever to avoid TBL because I hated that expansion (that expansion to me is what TBM currently is to you) There’s plenty of leveling/gearing paths available to everyone. Returnees and long standing vets alike. No entitlement or complaining required
2x 24-slot bags and DoN/MPG is debatable whether it's worth the cost or not. If you're subbed then you're getting free AA anyhow. For my FTP guys I did my 113.8-->115 trick I posted above, clicked a krono, maxed their AA, and then let them go to silver. My FTP melee DPS are doing 350k average DPS in group content, and I'm happy enough with that.
The problem isn't that high levels can't play with their low level buddies or that low levels can't get help from high-levels. The problem is that low-levels (as in, anyone below 100ish) can't easily find a group because the number of people at any given level range who would benefit from grouping with them is very small. Answers like "they should beg high-levels to let them leech" are kinda within the EQ gameplay of socialization, but are still pretty undesirable for most returning players who want to play a game, not ride coattails so they can play a game.
More Monster Missions. Anyone that’s able to group together (so that 30 level max gap), can group together. This way everyone is scaled to the same thing, the difficulty remains the same and it’s all about playing out the mission to the best of your abilities within the mission (so not exactly your classes abilities). Now how they’d go about rewards, so for exp/gear/currency, I’m not sure. I’ve never really done any to be able to say. But i think it would be fun way to go about it. Have it start at level 85, and allow the rewards to be like Overseer where you can choose your expansions currency. So that way, you can bank for 105 and EOK gear or whatever if you so choose. Only downside is, that currency is useless until you get to that level range. So there’s an upside (banking for future gear), and a downside (useless until you’re within level range). And with the currency being able to be used from HoT to current, there’d be a reason for everyone to want to do it. 115s are getting AA experience and currency for CoV thingies, and your 85s are gaining regular exp and getting in era gear/spells/augs/whatever Just an idea, not sure if it’s good or bad, just what came to mind
are you in a guild ? the right guild ? .. I dont know but on bertox im in a nice casual family semi-raiding guild (raids not mandatory) and we invite anyone that wants to join .. and during peak hours throughout the day there is a decent amount of peeps on always willing to help , also I see lowbie characters all the time asking for a group in guild and guild peeps saying hold on sec let me log in my lvl 50 toon and we can do something etc.. I see it all the time .. and thats just my guild .. even in /general chat or new players ive seen it (not as often) as in my guild channel but still happens .. BTW my guild on bertox is RR -Rivervale Revengers . your more than welcome to come to bertox and join .. anyone from guild can invite you . we also have guild bank open to anyone in guild and we have a guild neighborhood just outside our GGH that every house in that neighborhood is open to anyone in guild and each house has everything from lowbie gear to spells, collections and just mics stuff ..I know cause 3 of those houses are mine and I try to keep them stocked as much as possible plus anyone can drop stuff into them from guild .. so if the server your on doesnt have a good guild then by all means come to bertox and look us up and say hi .. although I will say this , if you play late at night PDT (pacific time) the guild is kinda quiet , its hit or miss during those times if you'll find anyone on to group with .. its fine for me cause I box so it dont bother me much ..
I understand the problem. What wouold be an acceptable solution ? I have a bunch (many per account) lvl 115 toons. Let's say a lvl 50 (or lvl 95) returner joins the guild and asks for a group. And I do have time and desire to help. What am I suppose to do ? Should I delevel one of my toons, so we can group together ? Permanently or a shroud would do? Delevel to what level ? Level 50 so we are equal? Or would it make more sense to shroud to 70 and then blast through lvl 65 zone, like Ferubi and let lvl 50 turn into lvl 60 in a matter of hour ? They would have a very important job - not to die - while my J5 (Yup, shrouded Journeyman lvl 5 merc, which not suppose to exist before lvl 85) lvl 70 tank shreds the ugly aneuks and mastrugs, and 1-on-1 kills Pixxt nameds ? Really, what is an acceptable scenario, how am I suppose to help that returner lvl 50 ? Struggle along? Or just blitz through outdated zones? So far I read all the ways of what I am supposed NOT to do for newbs, and noone coherently proposes the idea what I am suppose to do to help. I do what I can do - level them up as efficiently as I can.
I haven’t done many myself (2 or 3 in my entire EQ career and wasn’t a fan personally either). Like I said, was just an idea that allowed people to be scaled to the same level and get the same rewards without breaking anything.
What you're doing is great: You're mitigating a gap in the system and helping the next generation of players (or returning players) get boosted up to a point where they can make contributions in a group-oriented game where the players are concentrated. What I'm proposing is mitigating that gap by changing the system so they can make contributions from level 1 (or level 85, or whenever). Not a fan of MM, The limited / different abilities are annoying when you start and boring about 5 minutes after you get used to it. I gave up on my shaman's res stick about 3 Old Man McKenzie missions in.
Sorry, I expect people to read the thread. The balance issue with HA scaling is that it's more risk for same reward. HA's were made more difficult by the nature of the HA scaling that was implemented. So the HA got more difficult but the rewards were either scaled back (less XP for popular missions like Gribbles) or remained the same. Risk v Reward was thrown out the window in favor of punishing players for "exploiting" missions prior to HA scaling. Gribbles were fast, easy, and granted some decent rewards, even for high level players. HA scaling went into effect and Gribbles difficulty went up, while XP rewards were trimmed back, and the itemization was left at CotF levels. That's what I mean by Risk v Reward. This affects all expansions, not just CotF. I use Gribbles as an example because their popularity is what started this whole mess. If you think more risk for same reward is right where it should be, your awareness is appalling.
I've never done an HA, always assumed the programmatic balance after the changes made it pointless. Basically I assume that the devs were not on our side to make something fun. I don't understand why someone would make an entire thread about HA balance when there are so many amazing zones to play through from 80 to 100 as that IS the progression. HoT (85-90) is an amazing expansion, VoA (90-95) maybe not as great but very good. RoF (95-100) next... Just play the game. That is the returning player's progression, same as it was the non-returning players progression. These 3 expansions were honestly the prime of post OoW/GoD expansions for EQ and you are doing yourself a disservice by playing through them via HA. Why would you want to spend all this effort on a thread about a HA you can't beat when you could be out there finishing progression on zones you haven't bothered to appreciate? For returning players. you can either experience the game or PL to the endgame. You can't do both.
In all seriousness when was the last time you ran a gribbles? The reward far outweighs the risk, it isn't even sensible. To be able to do a single HA that takes less than 30 minutes with 2 real players and get over 50% of a levels worth of xp using lesson is unheard of at any point from Classic to RoF. Even if it takes a person an hour to complete it solo the xp far outweighs the risk compared to leveling the traditional way, even using the Franklin Teek tasks. It does slow down as you gain levels, and eventually turns to almost nothing at level 100, but the mobs do not have scaling issues, there will always be mostly blue conned mobs in Gribbles as well as many other CotF HAs. TBM is a different animal as the mobs are mostly white/yellows to the highest player in your group. I would never recommend a player use TBM HA's to gain xp, the xp from completing those tasks is abysmal. The reason to go to TBM is to complete "In to the Temple B" in order to unlock the remnant gear. With the gear unlocked you can buy the currency in Bazaar to gear yourself up and keep using Gribbles and/or Clayton Teek to get the xp to get to 100. At 100 the mobs in TBM progession instances give great xp per kill. Get enough past 100 that you can comfortably kill in FM and it is smooth sailing to 115. There are a lot of things to nitpick about this game, but in my opinion HA's risk vs reward isn't one of them. I can see the argument for TBM balancing, but at no point is it impossible to complete, and you only need to do every mission once as there is no value in the completion experience. If you can't finish a mission, learn some new strats, practice, and if that doesn't cut it get a level or two and try again.
EQ addressed this issue with Crescent's Reach. Once, the influx of players slows down its vital to funnel them into the same zones to maintain the population density. It doesn't do the players or game any good to have 100 players spread across 5 expansions for that leveling range. They'll never see each other. Modify a Dragonscale Hills style zone with different camp areas scaling from 75-120, and simple kill tasks for a currency reward to purchase gear. They're the promoted daily activity for New/Returning Players. DPG looks bad, when they give players these poorly designed HA's as their daily activity. It's not nitpicking, when they're directing players to run these missions. This is flawed line of reasoning for a couple aspects: 1) Currency has to be available to be purchased. 2) You need plat to buy the currency from the Bazaar. Are you expecting people to have made hundreds of thousands of plat already? You're basically saying just buy some Krono and use it to progress.
Which word, awareness or appalling? I'm pretty sure it's you that doesn't know the meaning of the words.
Wondering if 95-100 was bad level for tanks, was it a mage pet level range? I'm reading, https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35923 __DEL__1605485837746 13 posts Dinged 96 earlier. Decided to do a Call of the Forsaken heroic mission with my 100 SK who has 5000AA and 101k HP. SK engages named and gets whacked for 60k instantly so he feigns. Pet tanks mob without breaking a sweat. Pet HP never went under 50%. Sick. There was no risk. I even went AFK while pet tanked mob and mercs did their job. I just use SK for pulling now. Heh. Funny sounds similar to my story. WAHCK 60k gone, 20-40% hp left. if heal aint critical and gets it back to 100% before next round, its a GG. Maybe Mage pets get a free pass with overscaled mobs, like overscaled mobs have a secret calculator vs mage pets. Ah look at that, Heroic Mission, 100 SK, gets whacked very hard, FDs because next round is death. This is what you want returners to return to? I'm not even 100 yet, and I still have more pain train coming? I'm 21 levels away from the max level, why so much pain train for us returners? There's no one to hear us scream because no one in the zones.
The post is from 2013. And here some personal experience with pets tanking. My team went through leveling (as I wrote before) entirely tankless. Beastlord warder and mage pet took the beating. And I have developed a classification system for plated tanks I group with. Top tier tanks, I usually go to as "Dear uber immortal tank, there is a tough mob I need to kill or mission to win, can you please hold the aggro and survive while we fight it?" Those tanks are a few and far between. The majority of other plated tanks, be that warriors, paladins or SK's are of a different category "Use your best 2H weapon, 2H weapon stance, and do your best dps without grabbing aggro, while my warder tanks" It's very simple - plated tanks are very gear, AA, Heroic AA, augs and player skill dependant. Many are uber, most are not. Meanwhile pets come out of the box as very skillful tanks. Just give them summoned armor, weapons, buff them up and make sure there is no more than couple mobs at once, because they can not hold area aggro. I have SK, Paladin, Warrior alts, AA-autogranted, current era geared (although T1). The moment disciplines run out they all royally suck as tanks. Pets on the other hand - can tank almost any mob up to T3 of CoV, with just mercs healing. Anyway, most of the expansions (certaily several latest ones) are balanced for groups well developed and well-geared in the previous expansion. If one jumps ahead and skips an expansion or two - fights will be much more challenging, even if the mob levels seem close enough. Especially for tanks.
