Plane of Growth trash dropping Vulak Loot needs to be fixed ASAP

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by JohnnyBgood, Aug 18, 2021.

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  1. Trammie Surprise Apprentice

    Why did they make a Mischief server with random loot just to quickly remove random loot to appease the vocal minority that post on the forums? Cant the people that want normalized loot just play on literally any other Everquest server?
    Venalin, theonepercent and Quiver like this.
  2. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    My guess is that while the idea is conceptually simple, the implementation would be more time intensive than it seems.

    From reading up my interpretation is that every loot table has an ID attached to it, for example every loot table attached to rare mobs from level 41 to 50 has an ID of "8", those from 51 to 55 have an ID of "9", etc... Then whenever the game requests a drop from a loot table it instead chooses a random table with the same ID. The same is done for raid targets, so for example Trakanon, Gorenaire, Phara Dar, etc all have the same ID attached, so when one is killed you get loot from any of those targets.

    If that is the case, segmenting loot is pretty easy. If you set Grummus' table (along with tables from Aramin, Terris, etc) to ID 42 and Quarm to 45 (along with all other Time boss drop tables), Grummus won't drop Q's loot and Q won't drop Grummus loot. But if you wanted Grummus to drop 2 loots but Quarm to drop 6, it would mean redesigning the system entirely and adding an extra field to every possible target (how many drops). And that is a significant undertaking, both in terms of coding and manually changing database values.

    Does that make sense?
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  3. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    That's not how it works. Its pretty clear that there are buckets which individual mob loot tables are placed in, and the system draws straws to pull named drop lists out and attaches it to the mob. This is why you get all the trash stuff as well from those drop tables. It doesn't pull X pieces of loot from a bucket of tagged items, it pulls "3 named rolls with A, B, and C" (and can be A, A, A sometimes).
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  4. Grumblestiltskin New Member

    Sounds like the Krono Farmers are unhappy with the distribution of loot on this server.
    GOOD.
    Screw the Krono Farmers.

    I came to play (and pay) BECAUSE of the random loot.
    If IT goes, so do I and my $$$.
  5. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Now that is just getting silly.

    They should be able to guarentee X amount of loot from the killed target + X amount of random loot. That would be far better than occassionally getting nothing.
  6. HekkHekkHekk Augur

    While we're all here, I'd like to inquire about the PvP free trade Selos speed tlp.
  7. Lemaitre New Member

    It's plain to see that folks who want to change the loot system on these amazing servers are interested in doing so for their own selfish reasons. We all get it, EQ is a job to you. You are super happy that this free trade server lets you make a ton of Krono selling gear to people which you are able to farm easily by professional players and/or box armies. We all know there are people who still seem to be able to get around all the rules to run multiple accounts, directly or indirectly, who use third party software, and/or have the resources to just keep coming back even in the very low chance they are ever caught and disciplined.

    However these aren't the servers for you. Take your side hustle elsewhere. You will ultimately be better off on standard TLP where you can farm the hard to acquire drops and then sell loot rights. I get it, the free trade thing is a huge boon for your business, but the most important thing about this pair of boxes is the addition of random loot tables to the mix. It makes the game exciting and fun again.

    We casuals and non-elites are loving the mystery and surprise of taking down a mob that we never would have bothered with before because the loot to difficulty ratio was poor. There's a thrill in seeing an item drop that most players will have never heard of because it drops off some rare mob in a zone hardly ever played. Unique little items that you'd have to farm for in the past could now just show up out of nowhere unexpectedly. That is the whole point of these servers.

    In the end, this is a business decision, but fortunately not yours to make. It is for DBG to look at the subscription levels and the server population. If they want to change something that will make the 1% happy at the cost of the enjoyment of the rest of us, that is their call. They will see the results in their monthly business reviews eventually. Other TLP's will come along and the population numbers will shift accordingly. Ultimately, they will do what makes them the most profit, as would any business. Krono is only one revenue stream for them, so I trust they will do whatever their analysis says will generate the most money in the end. I hope it is also the option which has the most number of happy, paying subscribers.
    Venalin, Quiver and Hythos like this.
  8. Gelethin New Member


    This is 100% spot on. Its so the haves can exploit the have nots and the elitists can block the casual players from having any chance of getting the higher end loot and continue to exploit them for Krono.
  9. Motpop New Member

    Just fielding another opinion, as someone who was a part of the original hardcore scene, who has killed VA, Quarm, etc etc many times over.

    This server was branded as a randomized loot, anything-can-happen, "Mischief" server. Let it be that. So what if Grummus drops Quarm loot? Do you really think Quarm takes a modicum of skill to kill and therefore its loot should be gated only to the most hardcore and dedicated players? I'd heartily disagree. None of the end game is difficult, it just requires a large enough gaggle of people who've decided that their priorities are gaming (and let's call it for what it is as well, krono farming for the sake of profits off of EC tunnel). There isn't much skill involved in killing something that was downed twenty years ago, whose secrets have all been unlocked, whose strategies are right there for the hardest core and filthiest casuals to learn and utilize. So why gate their sweet bountiful booty behind nothing more than a time constraint? It stands contrary to what this server was promised to be.

    Let Mischief reign, slap the phat loots everywhere and let people be geared to hell and back because that's the joy, that potential is certainly what got me to play on this server at all. Who cares about being on bleeding edge of a TLP server without other specific interests, really. It's been done, it's not new. Let the casuals have some fun.

    Just one man's opinion, probably not popular, but hey. There it is. Take it or leave it.
    oldkracow, Venalin, Hythos and 2 others like this.
  10. nastar87 New Member

    I feel like its just one big guild complaining (Faceless) the thing is they want to farm this stuff and sell it for krono and get real cash out of it. Everyone is loving this crazyness of loot everywhere i think it should be left as is. quit catering to the poop sock guilds.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I keep seeing Grummus and Quarm being used as an example of raids dropping the same loot, why should they beon the same loot table when Grummus is level 70 and Quarm is level 80?

    That should never happen regardless of what they decide.

    I really dislike the thought of tiers, that was not how the server was promoted. Many expansion T2 is harder than T3, how are they going to work those?
  12. Veteranplayer Apprentice

    Hi Ngreth, I hope you are well and having an amazing weekend. I never @ or reply to devs, because I know you are incredibly busy people. I respect you for what you do to keep the game I Love alive. Please for the love of this game and this server you have created, please have a read over the last few pages of this thread. I started posting here 2 or 3 pages back. There is a massive majority of this server that doesnt want the randomness taken away. We dont want the best loot to only drop off a tiny number of mobs the only the elite guilds can kill. The vast majority of us came to experience loot we could never have imagine in 22 years. Here is a snippet of my post explaining my mom and pop style guild and,


    "I am in a wonderful family style guild of all nice players, we field about 50 - 70 players on a great turnout. We will not kill vulak for many weeks to come. The chance, even small, to have his loot on other lower targets (not minibosses you can 2 group) but like Dain and Yelinak is HUGE TO US. We are all massive fans of EQ and spend tons in the store, look at our cosmetics. But we are only playing on this server because it is the one chance in 22 years to see the loot we never could see, because family and work etc."

    There are countless other guilds like mine on this server, and we vastly out number Bobby and his elite guild of 150 players who zerg attack the dragons in open world. They get all the loot and then lord it over us and use this system to amass huge krono fortunes. It has happened on every single TLP and that is why most of us dont play on them. There is nothing wrong with his massive zerg army, but the other TLPS were made to cater to them. This TLP was finally giving all the rest of your player base, 90% of your customers, it was finally giving US a chance. The elite guilds have ruled this game for 22 years, and finally we all saw hope of something new. But people are in despair. My discord is full of people saying if you remove the random fun then they are out. DrNachoz is the biggest EQ streamer on youtube, we all watch his stuff, and his latest video is saying if these changes go live then the server is dead.

    I am begging you Ngreth. Please consider the 90% of the player base when making these changes. It is your guys server to run how you see fit. But if you takes Bobby's advice and take away the randomness and hand the good loot back to only the top elite zerg then the server will surely fade. Please I am begging you to consider this, the randomness and chance at cool loot is why the VAST amount of players are here to begin with. The tier system will only help the elite krono lords.

    Thank you so much Ngreth for the work you do, this server has been the most fun me or any of my friends have had in everquest since we were kids. I truly hope you take the unwashed masses of casuals into consideration when the changes go live. Have a great weekend
    Faydark, Aegir, Quiver and 4 others like this.
  13. Crabman Augur

    Im just gunna reiterate this real quick... as we killed another mob and got a lovely ball of golem clay, withered totem of widdershins and other fun classic loot from a velious raid mob... please please please get classic loot out of the velious tables... I dont care about tiers or anything like that but keep the expansions separate... Yall are complaining about grummus loot to quarm... how about a nice ST Talisman off quarm... cause thats basically what we are dealing with now
    Froger likes this.
  14. Froger Lorekeeper

    this
  15. Machen New Member


    Do you really think people care? Most of the people arguing in this thread don't even understand what your post is talking about, much less what the implications would be. And there's little chance they will still be playing on this server by the point those expansions roll around...
  16. Green_Mage Augur

    I think we should at least add Vymn to the top loot table. As long as several killable mobs (that aren't the hardest in Velious) drop the top tier loot. Tiers can be ok. But it sounds like you want to restrict the best drops to only a few of the hardest mobs. Maybe slightly more availability than that is called for given the response so far.
  17. Coldhearted New Member

    so this thread is mostly the Greedy krono lords upset they aren't going to make as much krono selling loot. who cares you have over 300 krono? people just want to get loot and have fun.
  18. acidic Journeyman

    I liked it better when the RMT people just did they're thing in silence. now they stream on twitch and post in discord and various forums 24 hrs a day to talk down to the normies and explain how this game should be ran, The best thing to do is just ignore them and not engage.
  19. verbatim Elder

    I don't think you want them to make the calculation like that, because easily half if not 70% of the active subs on a tlp are hard core player's alt boxes or people that are semi-professional. Neither of which is really satisfied by the kunark loot model for their own distinct reasons. I don't think that should matter, and I don't think that's how DBG should make decisions. I think these are pretty basic questions of game design and pathological incentives that should be addressed if feasible to do so.

    I understand why you like the idea of uniform randomization, and I don't think we'll ever really agree, but your vision of randomness basically ruins the progression incentives of the game in order to ensure that small groups of players (including your hated rmters) can farm more accessible mobs to get end game loot. Im sure that would be very exciting to them, I would personally be excited on launch night to get some time loot off of grummus, but I also think there is something fundamentally broken about the game if two splitting time is a worse use of time/resources than 12 splitting PoD.

    When I think of great uses for randomization in PoP its randomization of P3 loot in time so that each of the gods there drops eachother's stuff. I would love to raid that zone and know that even though rallos zek is dead there are a bunch of other chances at the item I am looking for. I would love to raid the elementals and know that the other elemental gods could drop eachother's loot. This kind of randomization enhances the experience of those zones and makes them pay off potentially for every participant.

    I get why you think tiering is a huge break with randomness and why a small guild would be disappointed if they couldn't win AoW loot off a mraaka, by the same token these other pathways to loot being more viable and more optimal farm targets than the most time consuming/'challenging' content (NToV takes like 2-4 hours to clear) just kind of ruins those zones and cheapens the reward you get from them. I don't speak for you obviously, but you don't speak for people like me either. While I don't think it should matter, good game design is what it is, I think I am actually channeling the opinion of the most prolific/lucrative customers that DBG has.
  20. Veteranplayer Apprentice

    If you think 70% of this server is elite cleric boxes and "professional" krono farm armies than I am afraid to tell you that you are disconnected from the reality of the server. There is a vast numbvder of casuals here for the exact loot rules you seek to eliminate.
    Faydark likes this.
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