Having boxed a Warrior from PoP-RoS on the Phinigel server, we are finally at the point where warriors are similar to their state on Live servers so I can ask for specific questions about the underlying mechanics of the abilities the class has access to. My first question I guess is how all of these abilties interact. If for example I activate everything simultaneously I would have all of these abilities running: Ultimate Stand - 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45% ToV BP Click - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500 Warrior's Rampart - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153 Aggravate Recourse - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178 Dissident Shield - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000 Brace for Impact Proc - 5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000 Ultimate Stand Proc - 6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783 Finish the Fight - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000 Myrmidon Synergy - 9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000 Wurmslayer Worn - 14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750 Cleric's Shining Buff - 12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10% Spire of the Warlord - 3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15% Blade Whirl Proc - 2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90% Warlord's Bravery - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% CoA BP Click - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% -- Above blocks CoA BP from landing I know there are plenty of other defensive AC / heal increase abilities. But I think these are all of the mitigation / avoidance abilities warriors have access to. So lets say I have a 100k melee hit about to hit my warrior. How do all of these abilities interact? This may answer all of my questions below but I figured this would be a good way to illustrate how all of them work. Does the Ultimate Stand's Melee Mitigation component calculate first? Do the Absorb Melee components only use the highest value, does it use 1 per slot, or do all of them stack together? The Warrior's Rampart / Dissident Shield lines that only absorb melee hits over a certain damage threshold, do they absorb that percentage on the entire hit or only the portion over the damage threshold? The increase parry chances from Spire and Blade Whirl trigger, do they stack together or does the highest take precedent? Do the Decrease Hit Damage Taken pieces from Warlord's Bravery and CoA BP stack with Ultimate Stand's Melee Mitigation? It sounds like Decrease Hit Damage and Melee Mitigation are the same effect but I am guessing there is some nuanced difference. I think these are all the full spell effects for the abiltiies summarized above: [58553/15825] Warrior's Rampart Rk. III Classes: WAR/114 Skill: Alteration (Combat Skill) Endurance: 2155 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 10m, Timer: 16 Duration: 4m+ (40 ticks), Dispelable: Yes Hate: 8894 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153 Text: Your armor shimmers with radiance. [58541/15802] Ultimate Stand Discipline Rk. III Classes: WAR/113 Skill: Defense (Combat Skill) Endurance: 2834, Upkeep: 12 per second Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 10.5m, Timer: 2 Duration: 3m+ (30 ticks), Dispelable: No Hate: 1 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45% 2: Add Melee Proc: Ultimate Stand Effect III with 100% Rate Mod 3: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 2 is 'Add Melee Proc v85' and < 999999 Text: You steel yourself for a last stand. [58544] Ultimate Stand Effect III Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks) Song, Dispelable: No Hate: 1350 6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783 Text: A shimmer of runes surrounds you. [58523/15827] Finish the Fight Rk. III Classes: WAR/112 Skill: Defense (Combat Skill) Endurance: 1080 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 5m, Timer: 18 Duration: 3m+ (30 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 600 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000 8: Absorb Spell Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000 Text: You feel no pain. [57812/15732] Dissident Shielding 6 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 6s Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks), Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 600 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS 2: Absorb Spell Damage: 40% over 6000, Total: 704000 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000 4: Increase Max HP by 25% 5: Absorb DoT Damage: 30%, Total: 704000 10: Increase Hate Generated by 100% Text: A shield shimmers in your vision. [58532/15806] Aggravate Recourse III Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 2 Incoming Hit Successes 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178 Text: You brace yourself for an attack. [16054/49710] Myrmidon's Synergy III Classes: WAR/254 Skill: Melee Target: Caster Group, MGB: No AE Range: 60' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Stacking: Myrmidon's Synergy 3 Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 6s (1 ticks) Song, Dispelable: No Max Hits: 6 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS 9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000 Text: You are guarded by Myrmidon's Synergy. [52284/32178] Impact Guard XI Classes: WAR/254 Skill: Defense Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 12 Incoming Hit Successes 5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000 Text: You up your guard. [48551/16293] Spire of the Warlord XII Classes: WAR/254 Skill: Melee Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 90s (15 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 2: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 8% 3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15% 6: Add Defensive Proc: Warlord's Weakening IV with 100% Rate Mod 10: Increase Hit Damage Bonus by 70 11: Increase AC by 26 (Raw=350) Text: You focus on the spire of the warlord. [41217/30700] Blade Whirl IX Classes: WAR/254 Skill: Defense Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 36s+ (6 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90% Text: Magical blades whirl around you. 52280/16097] Warlord's Bravery VI Classes: WAR/254 Skill: Abjuration Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 48s+ (8 ticks), Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 75 Incoming Hit Successes 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% Text: You shift into a defensive posture. [6392] Guardian's Bravery Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 24s+ (4 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% Text: You shift into a defensive posture. [47969] Wurmslayer's Guard Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 120h (72000 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes 14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750 Text: You are guarded. [46835] Roaring Shield Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 3m (30 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500 [25255] Shining Defense Classes: CLR/89 Skill: Abjuration Target: Single Range: 150' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 4.5s Duration: 4.5m+ (45 ticks), Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 3200 Incoming Hit Successes 12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10% Text: A shining defensive glow surrounds you.
SPA168 reduces the random portion of incoming melee Ultimate Stand - 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45% Defensive Proficiency II - 10: Increase Melee Mitigation by 12% SPA197 reduces the total damage of incoming melee Warlord's Bravery - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% CoA BP Click - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% -- Above blocks CoA BP from landing SPA451 absorbs damage off the top of high melee hits Glyph of Dragon Scales - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 35% over 5000 Roaring Shield(ToV BP Click) - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500 Warrior's Rampart - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153 Dissident Shield - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000 SPA162 absorbs damage off the bottom of melee hits Finish the Fight - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000 Wurmslayer Worn - 14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750 Aggravate Recourse - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178 Brace for Impact Proc - 5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000 Cleric's Shining Buff - 12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10% SPA55 absorbs all damage Ultimate Stand Proc - 6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783 Myrmidon Synergy - 9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000 SPA175 isn't hit mitigation like the others are. not really part of the conversation. Spire of the Warlord - 3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15% Blade Whirl Proc - 2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90%
Okay so if I understand that correctly, you can use one of each SPA? Or do SPA451, SPA162, SPA55 have some conflict where it only absorbs the highest value? So when using Ultimate Stand, Defensive Proficiency (forgot to include this) doesn't do any mitigation (other than it's shield block increasing). When using Cleric's Shining Buff on hits over 17,500, the Wurmslayer Worn effect doesn't factor in. When using Finish the Fight, the Wurmslayer Worn effect doesn't factor in? Sorry for all of the questions, but the mechanics of damage calculation haven't been clear to me for many years.
I believe that the order of operations on a hit : first SPA 168 ability applies, then the SPA 55 one, then SPA 162 one, then the SPA 451 one, then the SPA 197 one. To be more clear on stacking, the game will calculate for 2 abilities of the same SPA active, the one that gives you the least dmg, and apply it. This will be done for every hit you receive. So they still factor in somehow if that makes sense. For example, it's possible that for one hit, it's Finish the Fight that applies, and for the next one, it's Brace for Impact.
You have 3 families of damage reduction that come in order : - First one to fire is "Melee mitigation" SPA168 on DI part of damage formula. - Second one to fire is "Decrease Hit" family, SPA197 on full part of damage formula. (Guardian's/Warrior Bravery ) - Third ones are runes effect with labels like "Absorb....", Not sure 100% but I will say SPA numeric order ( ie 55 first to apply ). Interesting points : - If you fire SPA197 and/or SPA168, all your "total damage capped rune effect SPA" will last longer ( ex 451's roaring shield, dissident line, 162's... ) because of apply order. - If you fire same SPA line, they don't stack but the best mitigation will apply. In some heavy damage situation ( raid ), you can take advantage of that mechanic to get better protection and to make some of them last longer. ( the ones that are capped in total damage ). Depending on the damage amount of the hit, one will be activated and not the others, resulting in a gain of duration for the other and a most effective protection. Ex : Tanking raid mobs in rotation, Fireing 451's together like Dissident and Roaring Shield will be more effective and longer or equal than alone separately. Same idea for 162's. Fireing Finish the fight line/or diplomatic paper every time it is up along Brace for Impact will make that last one last longer and you will be better protected for low hits. It is interesting to draw a chart in excel showing the %damage reduction depending on the hit damage by SPA to see the breakeven of what is fired depending on the hit damage. G.
Wurmslayer is competing in SPA162 and is 1750 rune by hit I think. Major warrior's 162's we use : Defensive Proficiency Brace for impact Finish the fight Diplomatic paper if you run Finish, it is obvious it will never activate, if you run only the shield stance, breakeven is a hit round 30k. IE will trigger for hits ( after being reduced by the 2 first families ) below 30k. If you run brace, breakeven drops to 8000 which makes it pretty useless. Gonna try to upload a chart if it works that time :
Can't find a way to display the following chart. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TwM1sLgCF4l2dHeqMeAO4oCKjLXFbGOE/view?usp=sharing
Wurmslayer is great at allowing you to go to zones that aren't quite that old and doing this in them to massive crowds of mobs:
Hate to be the bad guy here but best way to learn Warrioring is to go out and warrior. Best players didn't learn to do it from a stat sheet or a chart. This goes for all classes to be honest.
You need both. The game does not teach you SPA stacking, spreadsheets do not teach you muscle memory.
The game should have more information on SPA stacking and how they work within the game, or alternatively a wiki where you can goto one place and get the info instead of having to search through 20 years of forum posts to see how works. But yes, all the best players use spreadsheets and muscle memory, this is an RPG not an action game.
Sorry to Necro the thread. Has some amazing info but one thing I couldn't discern and would love clarity on is where spa 451 and 162 fall into the order of operations. It sounds like they are both the last two but which comes before the other? It also sounds like they do the same thing except 451 has a threshold before it takes affect. Would that mean that, if you stacked two of them (let's say mantle and reavers Bargain) that reavers would mitigate hits over 25k by 75% and that mantle would mitigate only the first 25k by 35%? Also on spa 451...separate question. Let's say you have reavers (75%) on your sk and, after all primary calculations are done, you receive a hit for 26k before reavers mitigates it. Because it's over 25k, does the entire 26k get mitigated by 75% (receive hit for 6.5k) like an on or off switch on the entire hit...or do you mitigate just the damage over 25k (receive a hit for 25.25k)?
I can only answer this piece as I'm not sure about the order of operations bit. Reaver's Bargain "75% over 25000" piece will only reduce the portion of the damage that is >25000. So for a 26k hit, only the 1000 would be receive that mitigation. The "absorb damage using mana" piece would apply across the board, but is not a very large effect.
Figured it out; It appears 162 comes first, and then finally the 451 will take the remainder of the damage and calculate it's mitigation via it's threshold and mitigation % afterwards. You can therefore stack 162's with a 451 to increase total mitigation and extend it's damage cap if that happens to be advantageous. Also confirmed using Glyph with Reavers extended the duration of Reavers significantly, so using two abilities with the same spa appeared to eat the first 35% from Glyph's mitigation before using the 40% remaining on Reavers and eat it's damage cap up slower.
Yes and paladins stack SPA 162 and 451 all the time since our ... For Honor spell line was changed to use SPA 451 (thanks). Stacking usage is based on calculated benefit of non-conflicting (for the same SPA) spell slots. Glyph of Dragon Scales is designed to stack (slot-wise) with everything else available to PC characters, probably because it us an expendable AA. Stacking includes all the (melee) mitigating SPA that might be available (e.g. SPA: 55, 162, 163, 168, 451, etc?). Note that only pets get SPA 163.