Hi All, So I have a level 87 Mage and Wizard on the FV server right now that I've been duo boxing. I've finally hit a point where the Merc Tank is having difficulty tanking the content, so I want to start exploring adding a 3rd box account to this duo and was looking for suggestions from people on what you feel would be the best class to add as the 3rd I've been told the Mage pet can handle tanking duties into higher levels, so im undecided on if I should build up a tank class or not. I was debating a Paladin as the 3rd, but if Mage pet can tank then I was looking for other suggestions and thinking outside the box on what would compliment this team the best. Main things I'm looking for out of this trio: 1. Ability to do group content, quests, etc by myself when I can't get a group all the way to max level of 115 2. Looking for something fairly easy to box, but I'm open minded since the Mage/Wiz are easy to play. I figure the DPS is covered with Mage/Wiz and Mercs as needed. I currently use 1 Healer Merc and just started using 1 Melee DPS Merc after I dropped the Tank Merc. Mage Pet has tanked ok so far, but have only really tested it in Toskirakk (zone off the Void) so not a large sample size to make a judgement. Not sure if Healer merc will go the same way as the Tank merc in that it will no longer be effective enough at higher levels. So far its managing to keep my pet and I alive, and I use my Pet heal/shields as needed to help. Some ideas I've had for the 3rd: - Paladin for a reliable tank (might not need with Mage pet tho?) I hear Paladins do garbage damage, but that might not matter with mage/wiz dps and mercs - Bard for mana regen, damage, pulling and travel song - Shaman for slows and extra healing (if Healer Merc wont be enough long term) A buddy of mine suggested I go with another Mage, so would be Mage/Mage/Wiz... not sure if that is viable or if he was joking, but he seemed serious. I'm open to suggestions and appreciate any feedback you can provide!
Caster groups start to get rough the higher you go (less sustained damage than melee counterparts). If you are dead set on mage tanking, I'd go with an enchanter over all 3 of your listed ideas. But I'd go with a SK personally as the next toon in your group.
So enchanter would add Mana Regen, CC/Pulling, another Pet and another Tash to reduce target resistances.. Is there anything else I'm missing? What advantage would a SK be over a Paladin? Thanks for the feedback!
Enchanter meshes nicely with other casters in the adps department, plus those things you mentioned. Druid would also be a similar choice (without the mezz capabilities but player controlled heals). SKs are beasts and their damage output stays constant over mob type, unlike paladins. You can also tend to keep a SK up with just a merc (or even none) due to taps and aa procs. Pallies have similar survivability but their dps is just bad unless you are fighting undead.
Best class to bring in for your group would be a paladin. They can tank and will help heal your group when you start encounter rough AE damage from named mobs. The current expansion, ToV, has a lot of undead that provide a good opportunity for DPS from the paladin. Second best would be an SK who can tank and also has tools to pull with. Third is enchanter that can provide ADPS/mana for your group and also CC/pull. Fourth options would include a druid, another mage or a bard
At 87 on live I had Mage/Mage/Enc which worked well. You need to have the highest Pet focus you can get. The two mage pets would compete for aggro. I usually used dual air pets. If I knew how to play a bard I might go with that instead. The Mage/Mage/Enc had one issue no snare which I ran into one mission where you needed snare. SK Pally are great but out of the box the mage pet is better (IMO) when the level expansion goes up until you have geared your pally / SK. Worst part is mage pet never gets better it stays the same. Pally / SK get better. You have to put work into the SK/Pally for gear and AC augs and such. Not much work for Mage pet but again it never gets better. I do see your on FV so maybe no work just $$$ will get you there. I was able to do all the journey quest in Temple of Bert in the SoD expansion. This will help you when you hit your 80s. You will get paragon gear for each one. I did it 3 boxing with 3 mercs. Are you paying or FTP. Cause if you made it as far FTP that is pretty good. I had issues at about 65 for FTP Merc Tanks If your sticking with mage/wiz I would go SK. They have FD pull and procs and spells to self heal. Good luck with what ever you choose
I box a Bard with my main which is a Magician and never have any issues at all. I feel the Bard is a better puller than an enchanter, Bards also adds more total damage to the group via ADPS / personal DPS. Selos FTW
It's hard to make a top box team without a bard, they really are great. They are especially great for mages because their ADPS hits both the mage and their pets, and their Aura of Margidor is one of the few buffs that really help swarm pets (others include theft of essence and shaman's group pact of the wolf). I also agree that bard pulling is superior to an enchanters. However, with a wizard in the group the enchanter's contribution starts to really shine. The scope of what they provide for a wizard over a bard is immense. A mag/wiz/brd trio will do fine, but that wizard will always be a biiiit weaker than if an enchanter was on the team.
I 100% agree with your statement. The Wizard will not peak at the same levels as he/she would with an Enchanter however, I believe a Bard is easier to be efficient with. You've also got more utilities, albeit not as specialized. IMO - Bards are easier and take less effort to box than an Enchanter, which will allow you to maximize what you do on your Mage/Wiz. You'll also produce more personal DPS on the Bard compared to the Enchanter, which will negate the added increase an Enchanter would give a Wizard.
I think it depends on how you're going to play the bard/enchanter box in the group. if you're going to be active on it, then enchanter or druid is better for a caster group in general. If you want it more afk style, then bard is easier. However, I find mixing melee and ranged combatant types difficult when boxing (could be just me though). So for my caster group, I go Enchanter/mage/mage. If I want ports, I take druid over the wizard, because I like support classes mostly in any game I play. Those that have the moar DPS mentality will always choose the wizard, but in the long run, doesn't matter. Group with what you enjoy playing. However, with an enchanter in the mix, I can chain kill for hours without needing a break, but I also don't min/max my dps output on the mages, but use the other spells mage mains will tend to ignore because I still kill fast enough to be fun, and don't have to stop unless I run out of mobs or need a bio break. I prioritize minimizing downtime in all of my builds, while shooting for a trash mob kill time of around 20 -30 second range. Faster than that, and you'll run out of mobs to kill in any general area anyway. On a side note, I'd also consider putting a beast into the third slot. You'd get some regen for the casters, another viable offtank or 2 and useful buffs/debuffs. Honestly, pulling isn't a consideration these days,. and hasn't been for years. As a bard main I have lots of pulling tricks, I use none of them in probably 8 years, not counting one-offs for hunters. A group geared tank can easily tank 3 mobs using a cleric merc and none of the long cool-down defensives. Add a real healer and that changes the dynamic dramatically again. So, lots of options, but I'd go with one that reduces downtime between fights or extends the number of fights you can have before needing to rest...it will change the game for you as the pace picks up considerably and you feel like you're getting somewhere finally. If you are looking at a tank though, I'd go warrior for your setup. The knights need to be constantly casting, so if you're looking for an easier box setup, the warrior definitely is that. Without mana regen for the knights, your downtime between fights is going to become a hassle imo.
The OP has defined what his current group is, and what he's thinking about adding, suggesting he make an additional tank to add to his Mage/Wiz team, seems counter productive. Pulling does matter when you're talking about pet tanking, so I'm not sure why you said pulling isn't considered these days, it's a pretty obscene statement. Mage/Wiz is best suited for either a Bard or an Enchanter. You can add a Druid in however, you lose synergy by doing so over the Bard or Enchanter. Utilizing the Bards abilities is easier to do so while boxing than an Enchanter. When I was referring to ease of game play, I wasn't referring to AFK gameplay of a box, but rather being able to focus more on the DPS boxes vs your utility. If you're using a boxing software, then Enchanter is great. If not, Bard is the way to go . Cheers~
I would add a bard over an enchanter. The ability to pull anything and track outweighs the dps advantage of the enchanter imo. Get your bard's epic 2.0 and between that and fierce you have 100% up time on a significant crit boost. Don't forget aura's hit swarm pets, few enchanter aura's will do anything for swarm pets, where as bard aura's most certainly help.
part of his defined group included knights, so I offered a counter point on that. Considering the warrior based on downtime is a valid response. Also, my secondary group is a pet group so I understand pet tanking just fine. That group doesn't need a puller either. A single earth pet can tank 2 trash mobs easily enough. A mage can also use swarm pets to off tank and what not. So no, pulling doesn't matter at all and hasn't for a very very long time now. I understand your point of view, but mage and wiz combo has many ways to deal with it that makes pulling obsolete. It's not an obscene statement at all. From my point of view its more you having a one size fits all approach to things and being unable to accept there's more than one way to do it.
For years my wife and I have played (and continue to do so) a mage/wizard/enchanter trio. We were able to do a large percentage of all content with just the three of us (and three healer mercs). I would not hesitate to recommend an enchanter for your third spot. I have also tried swapping the enchanter for an SK but whoever plays the SK will have too much time diverted by positioning and keeping up aggro. Easiest thing is to let the mage pet do the tanking.
ADPS considerations aside, bards are great but their play style is so different to that of an int caster that in my opinion it would be harder for a bard to contribute melee dps than it is for a chanter to contribute dps via direct damage spells, when included in a wiz/mag/xxx team. I guess it depends on your boxing style.
BLUF - bottom line up front - play what you think you'd like to play. For most things, you'll be able to make it work. For things that can't get on your own, ask for help, be social I generally box 3 or 4 magicians, and just about every other variation of class with them. The 'main' one is max aa, max raid pet focus. Any of the 3 tanks, in appropriate gear/AA, hands down, without doubt, can all run circles around my pet tank. However, pet tanking is definitely viable. A real tank just makes many things a whole lot easier. In some situations, its nearly required to have either a CC or puller though, if going to pet tank. Yes, there are CoH tricks, fading, etc, that can do in open zones... not so easy to do in packed dungeons, etc. You can make things happen with just about any 3 toons plus mercs. Maybe not EVERYTHING, but many things. IMO, wiz/mag plus mercs can kill just about anything, if they can get the mob solo. Getting the mob solo... nobody can do it consistently and continuously, in every zone, easier/faster than a bard. Enchanter can do it as well, but not as easily. Enchanter can mez the mobs when pulled, but sometimes, 4-6 mobs can kill a pet (then toons) faster than they can be mez'd. SOME (many) missions/tasks at higher levels, though, require TANKING multiple mobs. MOST missions/tasks at higher levels, if CAN tank multiple mobs at once, go much faster/easier. NOBODY does that easier than real tanks. SK has just as much, if not more/easier self healing than a paladin at highest levels, while killing mobs. SK has better AE agro, which is key, if going to be AE DPSing with magician and wizard. Warrior, though, is much easier to be less attentive to, don't have to activate/cast stuff every 3 seconds to keep good agro, use self healing abilities, etc If you ever plan to do older raid content, mercs are not allowed in them, so if that's the case, you'd want to add a healer... Any of the 3 would work fine, healing a pet tank, for anything the pet can actually handle. Any priest healer, if played well, is worth at least 2 merc healers. I.E. - if add a priest, SHOULD be able to run 3 rogue mercs, for most things, likely increasing your group's DPS by significantly more than is probable adding any other non-priest class. As I'm sure you can tell by every post, including this one... it really depends on what you personally want to do, and how to play, as to which toon you should add Personally, if you want to be able to do the 'most' content, at the highest levels, I'd go with a tank of some sort. I prefer SK, at the moment, for group content due to their higher utility (some pulling ability, etc) and better AE hate abilities. If you think you want to mainly just kill mobs, throughout most zones, and not do a lot of questing, I'd probably go bard or druid (tracking, speedy movement/ports). HOWEVER (joking, sort of, here)... If the necro dot revamp goes live as is... just drop the mag and wiz, and make 3 new necros, and steamroll everything LOL...
Always add a bard (AAAB). Even if ftp, you should never be without one. I was not a fan of wiz when boxing, my (b)advice would be to abandon your wiz. My core box was mag/bard/ench, with added toons like mages, wiz, sk, shm, bst. What I will focus on when I return will be to get my sk leveled and geared, however sk are complex, so maybe a war is a good choice for a bit of complexity reduction...
Just recently got back into the game. I have 86 Wizard and now deciding to two box (will create heroic 85 char). Think I can grind to lvl 110 with Wiz/Mage combo? finding groups at lower lvls is too hard at the moment.
