Add a new tier of heroic char on live

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Motpop, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Svann2 The Magnificent

    I was going to say that next level increase everyone will be 120, and 85 will no longer be able to group with them for xp. So then it would make sense to raise the heroic to 90 at least. Make it 100 and that will give devs some time before the next increase becomes necessary.
    Petalonyx likes this.
  2. Szilent Augur

    o.g. heroics were 15 levels below max? so 105 would be appropriate at that point. As well, that would start the characters with Dichotomic & Covenant abilities so they don't have to learn just to start and then immediately take on major new tools. And 105 would put them on the threshold of an accessible gearing path (conflagrant)
  3. Zamiam Augur

    if they are going to raise Heroics it should be to lvl 100 .. no higher
    yepmetoo and Petalonyx like this.
  4. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Gearwise I would go with the best gear from the previous expansion prior to the level increase for the new Heroic Char. For example a level 110 char would have the best gear from Empire of Kunark as that was the least exapnsion at level 105. Darkened Sea was the first expansion at level 105 so the best gear should from the expansion before which was Call of the Forsaken, etc. Augs would be a little harder should really look at the best augs from the previous expansion and create something similar.

    AAs grant everything up to but not including the first level of the heroic char so for 110 upto and including EoK (this would include Dragon AA & Heroic AAs, Fortitude, etc), 105 upto and including CotF (this would include Heroic Fortitude etc)

    This gives them the the need to progress in both gear and AA so they feel they are accomplishing something as they level, but without the mountain of things to do that non Heroic Chars have.

    Basically you get a maxed char from the previous level increase, which can survive the fist expansion content designed for the heroic char level but will need to improve gear to survive future expansions. It also means any gear which drops as the player levels is an improvement on what they already have, if they play in zones equal or higher than their heroic level obviously.
  5. Kamor Lorekeeper

    110 would be great. It's not just how useful this new tier of Heroic Char would be today, but also how useful it will be in a year or five years. I would even advocate for all progression through ROS being complete. The uphill both ways crowd will hate it, but they also seem to hate the current 85's.
  6. Motpop New Member

    That's just the nature of that crowd. They'll find "something" to be angry about or to dislike, the consummate troll, "If I'm not happy, no one else can be"

    Frankly, I wouldn't pay much attention to their opinions, not seriously, anyways.
  7. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    It is poor taste to frame any opposing opinion as "trolling" and completely shutting them off. That's what tyrants do.

    You all had a sensible proposal up until this point. Ngreth and most of the players agreed on a suggested compromise of level 100-105 with limitations.

    The main merits against handing out level 110 with full progression is not only "not learning the class" but invokes the old arguments of "Pay to Win." EverQuest would turn into a different game if power were more freely sold. I play EQ2 but the way they sell power is off-putting (i.e. EQ2 sells power boosts through every avenue such as mounts, familiars, infusers). The old adage often rings true: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    Svann2, Kamor and Sancus like this.
  8. Laronk Augur

    I just invite who ever turns on lfg , the problem is lfg people hardly ever turn on lfg. Plus the correct place to go at 100 is FM to find a group. You’re the correct level to contribute and there’s often groups there.

    I have the advantage of being a raid geared paladin though so I take any one 95+ through gmm instance and they love the exp normally. I’m max as I don’t need to do the lesson burn either I just do it to exp randoms
    Yinla likes this.
  9. Kamor Lorekeeper

    I don't exactly disagree with you. 110 now may seem OP, but look at the long view, what is 110 going to look like in a few years? That's the point I think we need to balance around, not just today during this expansion.

    The Dev team will do what they think is best for the game, some of us will agree, some of us will not.
    Benito likes this.
  10. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    Fair enough. A previous poster calculated that a level 100 Heroic Character would be durable for the next 6+ years for the group-able level spread.*

    The problem with including progression up to very recent expansions (RoS) is that, whether it is your intention or not, players will feel obliged to purchase Heroic Characters in order to level their TBL chase loot (i.e EoK/RoS Champions for Djarn's Tarnished Amethyst Ring, TDS/VP access for Torn Efreeti Boots, and possibly pre-completed slayer for the gloves and pre-completed collections for the tabard). As you can see, there are unintended consequences which would undermine relevant content in the game or change the outlook to selling power.

    *Source:
  11. Szilent Augur

    Players advocating "progression up to very recent expansions" in the case of EoK/RoS almost certainly just mean being granted exactly the Essence of the Dragon I (Group) AA, which wouldn't necessitate granting the underlying Partisan prerequisites. Current 85 Heroics didn't include progression flags remotely current, though. On building, the current expansion was level 100, RoF; Heroics had gear & AA matching a "graduate" of Underfoot expansion; their DoN & Omens freebies were level 65 & 70 flags from 7 & 8 expansions further back even than their starting level.
  12. Benito EQ player since 2001.



    Then, for the sake of clarity, instead of the broad phrase "progression" then they could simply have used "with a grant of Essence of the Dragon I AA."

    Even by limiting progression grants to older expansions (TDS), it may be the intent of the traveler requirement for "Torn Efreeti Boots" to force players to complete TDS progression. It points to those unintended consequences for how the game is currently designed.

    Edit: I haven't checked but I may be wrong if TDS is now unlocked.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    Having EoK progression as part of heroic characters made sense untill GMM was released. Right now a heroic character playing efficiently will totally skip EoK / RoS progression and just ride Gribbles + TBM -> FM->GMM. Once they get max level and with conflagrant + GMM gear, then they'll be combat ready and will start on the looooong path of finishing their character.
    Benito likes this.
  14. Laronk Augur

    Also I know there's a work element to this but we should add tier 2 TBL visables to the chest table of GMM and this could be the catch - up mechanic to help people get "ready" for TOV. I know some people are opposed to others catching up, I don't need any of this loot my boxes are well geared.

    I want people to play with in TOV and I want them to have a reasonable way to catch up, people say make T1 attuneable but then it's still too expensive for people catching up. If people have trouble getting around in TBL right now; its going to be worse after TOV drops because the people who can help the "noobs" through TBL to get them ready for TOV. Conflag visables and gmm offslots are "fine" for a non tank until they get t1 TOV, I'm sure it's doable.

    Without adding t2 vis to GMM what's the expected path for a new tank to get into TOV? It seems like on a normal server you'd have to try to get conflag if it's available and then gmm offslots (it's tankable in conflag if you actually press your buttons) but the way TBL is setup it's a big barrier in getting ready to be able to do TOV.
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I just saw another couple folks in my casual guild go from the 90's to 110 in month or so.

    I'm split on a new heroic. Its a lot of work to create. I guess a 100 heroic would put a person in more reasonable grouping range of the top level folks but I and guildies of mine run groups adding level 80'ish folks. Not sure a person needs a level 100 heroic if they get in a good casual guild.

    I guess my question would be what would it cost us as players? Would other things not get done? Would it mean a zone less next expansion? What is the trade off.
    code-zero likes this.
  16. Szilent Augur

    and if there were a poll to decide dev time allocation (#1, we'd all need hardhats & armored vests, maybe actual bunkers to protect ourselves from Holly's rage), would players vote for this -- or epic 4s! :D
    Sancus likes this.
  17. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    I made a level 85 heroic shaman like someone else had posted - just this week right before the bonus started and I missed 3 days of bonus exp due to illness. I did not use any potions and kept forgetting to use his AA exp bonus and still managed to get to level 104 in a few days. Simply did the daily Teek Ha when they were located in zones he could get into to.

    I am not a top tier player so if I can do that then it's obviously not real hard to get to top level starting at level 85 heroic right now. Especially those with large guilds.

    If a new player comes in on a heroic and is complaining that they want the heroics to be level 100 cause the 85's aren't high enough or are too hard to catch up with from that level then they probably won't do any better with a level 100 one.

    Overall it seems this is just lazy people wanting the character to pop already maxed out and ready to go. It seems to defeat the purpose of EQ because unlike high shooting score games there is no score kept in EQ so no real reason to get to top level? Shinier augs? More arrows? Better hmmm food?

    Doesn't matter to me cause either way its money in DBG pocket and helps support the game. So long as they leave older content in the game so the rest of us who enjoy working out puzzles/quests or achievements or long long aug quests can do that then you all continue with whatever floats your boat.:D
  18. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    The "base gear" is "easy" it's the augments that are not easy :(
    I've already been lambasted on beta for listening to people that told me "just use Heroc Stamina Augs"
    Corwyhn Lionheart and code-zero like this.
  19. Qbert Gallifreyan

    Maybe set a table of augments that could be selected from a special vendor and give those new heroics however many unique coins that vendor accepts to buy exactly one set worth. Then you don't have to worry you are picking the correct augments for each person's whims.

    This presumes you are talking about type 7/8 augments (can just give everyone X currency for the expansion from which you want them to buy the type 5 augments).
  20. Tucoh Augur

    Just give the heroic characters 40k remnants of tranquility and have into the temple B progression in TBM done so they can spend them in plane of health on whatever augs they want.

    I know that probably feels cheap and dirty, but i can promise you people will love it.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Tarvas like this.