Two populations playing the same game

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Corwyhn Lionheart, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Mazame Augur

    Many guilds raid 1 night to 4 nights a week. With a week holding 7 day so to say most people play in Raid format would be wrong.

    people are doing Group content more often then people are doing raid content. Just because some people raid doesn't mean they don't play the group content.

    Also many people that raid do not have Raid gear alts that they play.

    Their are not two populations in this game. People play EQ or they Don't play EQ. When people play they play different content in the game but that why the game has different content.

    Some like the house-ing and will spend hours on end making their guild hall or home look the way they want.

    Other like to TS. (i not one of them but to each their own.)

    Some like to hunt /ach

    Some like to do Missions

    some like questing

    Some like to raid

    Some like to solo.

    Some people like to play the /baz (they enjoy making plat)

    some play for the money they make.

    And here the kicker most people do more then one.
  2. Whulfgar Augur

    ok simple question.

    How long do you think .. EQ would last with zero raids what so ever .. not a single raid event and not having the ability to form up into a raid at all ?

    Days ? ?

    Weeks ??

    Months ??

    Years ??

    Before they can't afford dev's to push new content out ?
  3. Mazame Augur

    Diablo has no raiding and it still going strong.

    It not about raid it about content / people

    if you have people you enjoy being around you will log in to be with those people.

    if they release group content and no raid content then you would still have people playing for years and years. because they can log in with their friends and play together and enjoy the group content.

    You act like raiding and grouping can't co exist but the truth is more time is spent in a week in the group content then on the raid content so if you were to remove the raid you would still have people that play.

    the way you make it sound is that if no raid then no one would want to log in.
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  4. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Be hard to imagine EQ without raids.
    Elyssanda and Duder like this.
  5. Spellfire Augur

    Years.
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  6. Whulfgar Augur

    Diablo has zero dedicated dev's for strickly that game.

    apples to oranges..

    You can not compare a platform that lives off of its other games (diablo) lives off of the vastly more popular game of its parant company (Wow)

    To a game .. Everquest, that has its own dedicated staff .. which actually supports other games in the parant company..

    I never said once in any of my posts .. that raiding and grouping can't co exsist.. (thats idiocy) as THATS .. exactly whats been happening.

    My side what I've said what I will continue to say .. is with out raiding content or the ability to form an actual raid .. Everquest would die FASTER .. then if they had no group content.

    And the number's support my claim.
  7. Aurastrider Augur

    This is a silly debate. Someone could flip it and ask how long do you think EQ would last if you had to complete raids to unlock group content. You would effectively lose all your non raiders. Anyone trying to say there are more of one group is just speculating. EQ without either group is probably dead or at the very least no new content and people just hash out the same content over and over again.
  8. Tanols Augur

    This entire thread almost makes me wish missions rewarded nothing but coins. That way a two tier difficulty system could be employed. Easy mode = half the difficulty for half the reward.
    As far as TBL goes I don't thing some people are crediting it with the gifts that were in it ... Second task of the progression (Fight Fire) has a chance to reward gear that had potential to be BETTER than current raid gear in 4 slots. Yes it is a difficult and challenging expansion. Some aspects of it difficult even for those "hard core" raider types in full raid gear when attempted under less than ideal conditions.
    Then along comes GMM. Best in slot group gear for non visible, some augments and weapons. Minimal risk for biggest reward in the current expansion cycle.
    Now if it was me, being the "casual slacker" that I can be and was in the distant past (present), I would grind out what I could on my own boxing > ask friends to knock out the stuff I couldn't > wait for next expansion to drop > buy it > gain what power I could from it > go back and knock out what I couldn't get done in the past expansion.
    Asking or expecting the devs to design current content that is both doable by 3 pcs + 3 mercs yet will provide a challenge for 6 average to above average raid geared players is almost akin to asking the impossible to insanity.
    I'm not going to say any names but if you know them or if they read this they will know who I am talking about. Several years ago some of my best friends in EQ retired from raiding. They have done ONLY group content for the last 5 yrs. Warrior, Cleric and a boxed shaman. They rely on mercs and occasionally myself or others for added dps. With exception of a few tasks, secondary achievements in tasks, they have completed ALL of every expansion in that time period. Including TBL. What they couldn't do when content was current they go back and do it over AFTER new expansion drops and they have gained the power to do so.
    If people are willing to purchase new expansions in order to gain what they can from it. Then go back to complete things they could not when it was current then their needs are being satisfied. Just as myself and many others I have not mentioned here have done in the past and continue to do so today.
    Most of the issues raised here and in other threads like it are not the fault of the developers it is entirely the attitudes and expectations of the players. It was stated that there are many ways to "play" EQ. It is a vast and varied world in Norrath. People can get as little or as much from it as they are willing to put the time, effort, skill into getting. These discussions should celebrate that variety NOT pit them against each other.
    Mazame and Zurril like this.
  9. CrazyLarth Augur

    if they did their epic they raided.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  10. Whulfgar Augur

    I like that you an I think differently. However I disagree. And here is why.

    How many games out on the market right now are basically .. Raid style content games ?

    How many games out on the market right now are basically .. Group only style content games ?

    There are hundreds an thousands of games that are group only game content designed .. There are literally maby a dozen that are raid style content pushing..

    Everquest has both a group content which via the grp progression.. supports its Raid content. Group is done to help build the character up. Can a character do nothing but raids zero what so ever group content absolutely I've seen it many times on different servers. Does that mean Raiding is thee only thing to do nope not by a mile..

    I am for both group content and raid content. But as I've said before the #'s of group only players is smaller then the overall number of Raiders (to include their boxes) this has been proven in a thread not more then a month ago at most?

    Some one asked how many of us boxes. And in like 20 people who posted .. it turned out to be like almost 250 toons that were raiders who boxed 1 or more toons. Some gold, some not (thats not the point) the point is / was .. Raiders (and their boxes) far outnumber the total group content only (mains).
  11. Mazame Augur


    20 people posting is a very small sample size and in noway can draw a conclusion in one way or another.

    Also just because some one doesn't raid doesn't mean they don't box. as an example see the following.


    The fact that their are a greater number of Group games vs Raid on the market would suggest that more people are willing to play group games. After Supply vs demand the demand is showing that is where more people interest are.

    So yes I think EQ would do just fine with out raid content. how ever if it was filpped and Only had raid content then I think EQ would not last long because most of ones time spent during the week is not on raiding. Some of the top guilds only spend 5-10 hours a week raiding so it would suggest that we do find raid content enjoyable it not where the larger % of our time is spent.
  12. Spellfire Augur

    Proven where? Unless you can link EQ dev quote about EQ numbers, your theories mean nothing.

    I'm a raider and if/when Daybreak decides they are done creating raids I will retire for good. However, there are many many group players who are not interested in raiding at all and they will continue playing the game because for them nothing changed.
  13. Whulfgar Augur

    that thread had like 50ish people posting .. And every single one of them boxed.. some like myself have more then one. Some had only 1 box.

    Point being.. Take their raid main out of the equation.. They won't be playing all those alt's that do not raid..

    and so no 20 is not the sample size. Its just the number I remember laughing at .. that far exceeds my side of the debate.

    No raids .. mean's people like me .. who box 7 at a time .. with 12 subs .. (7 toons I actively play, 5 toons who are lvl 85 hero toons, on various servers running my bazaar stock) all because of 1 toon I raid on actively.

    I consider myself the average boxer.

    There are FAR more boxers in this game then not .. thats a fact.. again I point to that thread for sample size verification.. 148ish people I know on all 7 servers I've played on / continue to play on .. only 1 I know of that does not box at all.. And that lone player is a raider. Tho admittedly they just today hinted they may start boxing now.

    All this aside.. point being.. Raiders box. Those boxes .. most of do not raid. Thus making those toons strickly group playing only toons.

    Taking that logic.. going further .. pointing to the exact same thread as I was earlier.. it went like 3/4 pages of people saying how many they box .. an all that . I point to that as a defacto perfect sample size for us to draw numbers on.

    Then combine that thread .. with the site that ranks our guilds first to beat expansion on down from 1 - what ever number .. There are 14 raid guilds currently that are hitting TBL .. thats 14 raid forces of 54 people .. 14x54 = 756 raiders. As I said I know of at least 148 people on the various servers (that are raiders) I play on. I know of 1 .. that does not box .. lets do some basic math ..

    148 x2 = 296 players

    so obiously .. we take the 756 raiders in the 14 guilds actively hunting TBL raids, (an bere in mind this is not the open raid systems, nor is it pick up raids of any type / kind) plus those raider's alts .. out of the game ..

    And you and I know .. you take out a couple thousand players instantly.. Most server's will end up looking exactly like the Zek servers..

    Now .. lets reverse this logic ..

    You take out every single group player (not the alt's of the raiders either this is strickly player's who group only on ALL of their toons, not 1 raid in the same time TBL has been out)

    And you will not impact the game as much as taking out all of the Raider's and their boxes.
  14. Aurastrider Augur

    Mind blown thanks for all of that official data to prove your point.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  15. AcemoneyFV Augur

    Wrong. Just go around inspecting people. There are way more group geared players than raid geared players. I'm constantly doing this giving away gear on the FV server. I used to raid myself, but it's clear to see there are definitely more casual folks than raiders.
  16. Whulfgar Augur

    Welcome.
  17. Whulfgar Augur

    Refresh my memory.. how many raid guilds are active on FV server ?
  18. AcemoneyFV Augur

    3.
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  19. Whulfgar Augur

    One more refresh for me.. raid gear is tradeable on Fv server yes ?
  20. Hambang New Member

    Isn’t koi doing some TBL? So 4
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