Can we standardize ZEMS already?

We all know they exist. ZEMS (zone experience modifiers) have been around since true classic EQ. I remember fighting in Lake of Ill Omen, as did a lot of people, because the experience modifier was so good.

But I'd have liked some variety instead of feeling almost compelled to do it.

By all means, make dungeon exp 100 and open world exp 75, which acknowledges the inherent greater danger when fighting in a dungeon (can't very well strafe run away from mobs with locked doors or walls everywhere). As it stands now, people flock en masse to the zones that have the highest ZEMS (granted, going off of "unofficial" ZEM lists, but tested and re-tested to determine accuracy). Unrest is a perfect example. It's already a zone with a great pulling mob ratio, and easy access as you exp to increasingly difficult enemies, but add in the ZEM factor and we're up to pick 77 and trying in vain to find an open camp.

Before I'm jumped on with, "but exp isn't just ZEM, it's how fast you can pull/how fast you can kill etc." Yes, I understand. But the ZEM zones already have some of the best exp/pull's in that level range, but then add in the ZEM and you feel like you're not making the best use of your time going elsewhere. And there just aren't people elsewhere!

Make things relevant again. Have people go fight in the Karana's for exp and not just for epic loot drops. I'd love to find more people in Najena or Sol A, and not just Unrest, Lower Guk, and the Hole. In classic, Lower Guk has one of the best mob, pull, and loot ratio's of any zone within that level.
And if I'm way off base in wanting to get rid of some of the arbitrariness behind ZEMS, please let me know and share your feelings on the matter. Thank you.

They should have made the ZEMs dynamic based on zone usage and adjust every few days. But the main issue that some zones the mobs are just far too easy to kill due to the abnormal player power in the current TLP setup.

What you would need to make players go somewhere else rather than the easy zones currently is easy travel points, ZEMs that actually matter and possibility loot. Some zone's need work for more mob density (All the karana's etc..).

Be careful with your wishes, them can just nerf unrest/guk exp (like Sebilis).
Usually noone hunt in outdoor zones for exp anymore, i will love if them not nerf dungeon exp but increase outdoor

I thought they did?

They just did. Zem are more balanced to dungeon vs. outdoor and more similar between zones than ever before.

We can finally stop xp farming the revamped hole, other places are just as good. It's fine.

TFW Emerald Jungle mobs give more xp than City of Mist.

Even within the same zone people are always going to head to where the people are and where the people are is the "easiest" and most efficient place possible.

I am currently working on my second pair of characters on Mangler with a few friends and we have reached LGuk on the second set. CC goes out, undead side is camped like Yosemite, live side more barren than the Sahara. Now because we are going in as a pre-made and know the area we don't mind one bit. As a matter of fact it's nice to not have to compete for camps at all since we are only interested in exp.

Is Live side more efficient than dead? Nope because it is more spread out which means longer pulls and that side has shamans who heal which increases time to kill sometimes. There are also mobs that see invis that wander the halls so finding a rep is damn near impossible without collecting them ourselves. But it is more efficient when you consider trying to pick, wait, or muscle your way into a camp on the dead side.

Point being you are always going to have people who try and follow the "golden" path, even if it is more advantageous to break from it, and sitting at zone LFG all night. Flattening the ZEM across all zones will not change that.

They did normalize them. People flock to specific zones because those zones are brainlessly easy and most players are semi-afk, mis-geared, and misunderstand extremely basic game mechanics.

Note to the OP- Sol A exp/ZEM Rocks. It is usually empty because most newbie groups cant handle the casters / runner mobs will kill you fast. If you have an experienced group goblins rock for exp. Gnomes are also a very overlooked camp for some reason but if you do not care about gnome faction- that camp is amazing exp. Sol A is also not half as empty of 'newbie' groups as previous TLP's. When I run in to check camps there is usually people there exping its just not on the 'golden path' as many have pointed out.

if you ruin your gnome faction in SolA just go fix it with kobolds in SolB

UGuk is really good too.

ZEMs matter, but the biggest things people look for when they go somewhere to EXP are loot, mob difficulty (HP, DPS, resists, etc.), and mob density/availability. I don’t think I’ve ever once said let’s go to Zone X because the ZEM is better.

I for sure have. When they nerfed the Seb ZEM and increased the Chardok one, everyone on Coirnav changed to Chardok as the leveling dungeon of choice in Kunark and it has stayed that way ever since.

I think there is an argument to just make ZEM = flatline.

That flatline probably shouldn't be random terrible classic outdoor zone, nor The Hole. They can already tweak specific servers hot or cold for XP rates.

Then what will happen (as others have pointed out):

We will have the linear leveling path with picks in all the high density/fast/respawn easy to kill places. Some of this will be old habit, but it will shift as the math sinks into people.

Places with casters, mobs that do tricky things, awkward pathing, etc. will be empty of group play --unless there is a compelling loot/quest reason to go there.

Granted, the argument that some zones need harder mobs and such is valid too, or that some zones need loot to suit their comparable level range zones, etc.

It was that we before the change, Chardok has always been much better than Seb IMO. But perhaps it’s even better now lol.

They had a change in the zem right before Coirnav launched. Places like Lower Guk and unrest took a small nerf, and some outdoor zones got a buff. However, it did little to encourage trying a different path than the one that most peeps always take....which is some variation of going to Unrest from 10- to mid 20ish than Lower Guk from 40 ish than the hole to 50. Its because it not just about zem, its more about quantity of mobs that can be pulled. Many outdoor zones have lots of mobs but they are to spaced to pull efficiently. Unrest and Guk have lots of mobs to pull in a small space, making them ideal. They could combat this by allowing more mobs to spawn with faster rates in the outdoor zones making them a viable option. ( I dont mean like North Ro instant spawns around the undead ruins or the instant Orc spawns in Oasis)

@any smart Dev - Do not fall for this dumb request a second time... The fact that ZEMs were recently tweaked and OP isn't even aware of it is great indication to how much effect it had. All it did in the long run was nerf certain exp routes.

I fondly remember time spent grouping at aviaks in south karana. Now you might find a druid there root rotting every once in awhile between afks.

The crushbone, unrest, lower guk routine is getting really old.

Runnyeye, I have noticed, is almost always completely empty on Mangler.

Do people still group Blackburrow? I haven't been over that way yet. The Gorge? Highpass Orcs/Bandits?

I feel like there are so many zones and camps people just don't utilize because they aren't the absolute maximum xp/loot rewards, but are perfectly viable solutions to the problem of not being able to find a group or being tired of running in the same three or four zones.

Game's 20 years old they ain't changing sheeeeeeeeeeit

Equalizing ZEMs probably won't do the trick - unfortunately, this isn't 1999 and mostly everyone playing the TLPs has a pretty good idea of the best way to level/gear. You would need to start giving zones like Gorge or Befallen 2x or 3x experience modifiers just to get people to mosey over there and honestly, more harm than good is likely to be done.

I think we just need to accept that over the last 20 years, Unrest and Lguk have proven to be the path of least resistance in the rush to max level. Essentially, it's just easier to fight hordes of densely packed undead mobs who don't flee, don't heal, and have a very wide linear progression of mob levels who are very nicely segregated.