Necro Dot Revamp and The Issue with Chanters

Lets talk about this. We all hope that come the 20 anniversary event we see the Necro revamp and DoT consolations that we've all been waiting for. Hope this is a case of you were keeping the best for last. Really needs to happen for the sake of Necro's playing Selos.

Chanters and their charms. It hasn't been addressed, or wait. You know we all love them but it just gets to a point that by not bring this into line it's gotten harder and harder for other classes to find groups. Yeah charm should be strong but it's way over powered. Look at Chanters on Live, post 75 we see a pet dmg reduction. There's a reason for that and it's because if it hadn't happened then the game becomes one sided. Mage pets are strong also and out of era but chanters are like the all in one best utility dps class.

<Edit> Lol Imagine that. Calling for a class nerf is against the rules on these forums. Ok editing it but find it kind of strange seeing as most the games I play talk about nerfing all the time. I'd still like to see a change, maybe it should be brought into line. Not a "nerf" though.

In before the lock!

Also, just so you know, the dot revamps were not aimed at fixing things on the TLP's--they were targetted at live. So it is unlikely they will roll out a necro revamp in coordination with new TLP's launching.

This. If they ever revamp necro dots at this point I believe they'll just do it with a new expansion to create a new line of DoTs all together, leaving most if not everything preceding it intact. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the necro dot mechanics, lines, or stacking until much later in the game.

Edit - There is a much broader caster problem in general however, mob resists. In particular Plane of Sky and Anguish. That definitely need a serious look at.

Asks for necro buffs but enchanter nerfs because of charm.


Lol?

On the plus side the focus effect removal is a pretty major enchanter nerf, it will make charming much more difficult, the loss of haste will make having a "full rtard" pet less viable. Also in classic it may cause a bit of mana troubles losing the buff duration and general efficiency.

I'm all for nerfing charm, but doing so is gonna hurt necros a lot more than a dot revamp.

No I corrected my thinking because I realized the error of my ways. I am not asking for a chanter nerf. I said they should be brought into line with the other classes a bit more in regards to this issue with charm being over powered and how it effects diversity in groups.

I also think Paladins should be brought into line with the other tanks. See brought into line doesn't imply nerfing and Pallys really could use some love. They have needed it for a very long time.

As far as my comments/OP's about these topics on Necro's and Chanters the two are unrelated. Anyone that plays Live knows that Necro's are a strong class but start running into issues that will effect them on Selo's. We have been waiting for this revamp for a long time. The revamp is not a buff and wasn't so much a buff to SHM and Droods either. It was something that improved game play, not meant to be a buff but Necro's are a DPS class and having them cast 3 different sets of spells they constantly have to switch out is horrible... The DoT consolidation is needed badly in the long term which isn't all that long on Selos.

Once you start looking at class balance you can't just look at one thing and stop there.There is so many things that aren't equal in this game, if they start making changes they open the floodgates to huge amounts criticism.

Every single MMO since EQ has focused way too much on balance and look at the genre now, so many games with uninspired class design. I think one of the things that gives EQ some of its charm is the fact that they never tried to balance everything completely.

What? There's no flood gates here. This isn't taking all the classes and making a boring mono classes this is taking the worst offenders in either direction and balancing a bit better. Pallys suck on live and NO their heals aren't enough to make up for Warrior dics or SK agro management.

Might I also point out that this DoT revamp has been a long time coming. With only 2 Necros raids are easily hitting the debuff cap on Live. As you get more than that, what gets blocked is more and more likely to be important. We see more and more classes as you progress from classic towards Live that all start taking up more of the debuff cap and it's leaving Necro's to sit by the wayside.

Again we haven't opened up any flood gates here and if that's how you see it doing this isn't like opening the can of worms you are comparing it to. The revamps where a thing already and they should of started with Necro's but they didn't and we went through all this buffing and nerfing. Hopefully DB will finish what they started. This isn't about being equal as much as it is about the current game mechanics and the practicality of actually using Necro's as DPS on raids the way they were meant to be played.

Give rogues some strong poison recipes

Buff pally stuns.

Nerf charm for all charmers (druids, necros, chanters)

Nerf monk damage

Buff Ranger.... Something... I dunno =p

That' be pretty much good.

If the goal is nontrivial challenge of the old content, it may require different scalpels than just targetting a single class.

Put a global mob buff on classic to OoW era that makes NPC more magic resistant. Doesn't impact live or later game at all, can even fall off the mobs so only the most current expac or two has the increased difficulty. Why? --MR changes years ago are a huge part of why charm is so good now in old content. This increases the risk without hurting the power of the charm pets. [Harder to get, harder to hold, still hits like a truck]

Necro dot revamp is needed if one is serious about the class being viable about raiding... long before live server end game. My views on grouping and solo necro needs are in other threads.

A few better ratio daggers in classic and rogues are on par.

Caster direct damage and pets have had a lot of compounding changes over the years. Only matters if making the oldest content nontrivial is a goal.

Put a 1% slow on all charms if we are talking about nerfing charm.

Charmed pets still do formidable damage but arent blenders...

As for necro's... they need some revamps. Kind of funny my 65 shaman dot does the same damage as 2.5-3 necro dots.

Rogues do need something and this would be an easy start. Just make the existing weapons better. Making Poison a thing to take seriously would go a very long way in fixing the Rogue class while bringing something that's already in the game to the table again.

Well Shm and Druids aren't just utility class anymore they are DPS Utility. The list of things wrong with not finishing the revamp in regards to the Necro class is BS.

Yes why not give Pallys better stuns. Stun is much better agro then heal.

I guess I'd like some word from DB on these sorts of things and as much as I am a fan of doing things for TLP like removing focus effects from Mangler it's also good not to forget Live. For myself I'd like more options. GL right... Well it's always nice to consider what could be done even if it appears that nothing will change.

The way it stands if you don't like something change it, if you can't change it leave. Well we aren't really leaving but whats happening is classes just aren't getting groups and therefor aren't being played.

The Necro revamp is going to be pita, we know the work that went into the other classes but there's no excuse here for being lazy. If I knew that it was still being worked on I'd be happy with that. In regards to some of the other classes needing attention some really easy fixes and a few great ideas have been brought up in this thread.

Define "much later in the game" because necros have been silently nerfed into oblivion since PoP and some may argue Luclin. As a necro, I work harder than other DPS classes do on EVERY fight, yet I do half their DPS at best. In SoD, the utility of a necro is a moot point, as every class has plenty of sustain (something necros use to corner the market on). In the group game we suck...Horribly... and have sucked for a long long long time. In raids, the massive boost to other classes DPS has unbalanced the DOT mechanics in a way, I personally think, that the devs never thought would happen. Raid mobs die faster, MUCH FASTER. A lot of times, raid mobs are dying before I can get my 10th or 11th DoT stacked on. Well considering my DPS has not even finished ramping up, I am WOEFULLY BEHIND.

Devs...PLEASE...

Finish the Necro DoT consolidation.

Please consolidate the DoTs like you intended, then balance them in the manner you did with Shaman. Just leave the the Lifetap-over time dots, and the darkness line alone. Those lines don't need adjustment as they are mainly used for solo/grouping and dont need consolidation for raiding situations. Heck, most of the necros by now have to know that you just aren't going to nail it perfect the first time, and we are on board with this. You have set a precident with the previous DoT class revamps and, after adjustments, those classes are, for the most part, HAPPY with the changes. We necros would like our shot now.

Hmm, can we get a resonse please Devs?

Devs?

Paladins are fine. Average players cannot paladin, thats what sk's are for. People bash paladins cause they suck at life.

Chanters are great in a group setting. They’re the group class. They fall off pretty hard in the raiding scene. This isn’t WoW, classes all have their areas where they shine and where they don’t. Necros can solo well. Why isn’t there outcry that clerics heal too hard and don’t do enough damage?

Their silence on this issue for over two years now is probably all the response you need.

I couldn't agree more. It's not just at raid level either. I really want to like the Wizard but the resists throughout the entire game just kills it for me. Even vs blue con mobs you will often get resisted. It's not like the mobs just have resistance to a certain type of magic, they resist all equally far too well. Nothing more disappointing than nuking 1-3 times, doing 0 damage and getting aggro for it.

Charm is fine. Its a little strong in classic and kunark but only because other classes are really weak. You guys just need to realize asking for nerfs is the wrong way to address class balance and will always create hostility and resistance.

Necros need something. Start with the fire dot line. Let that settle and evaluate.

I wonder why the necro dot revamp is taking so long, a quick word from a Dev would be great. I find them boring and tedious in raids, casting low level dots and using /mems XX macro's is just bad gameplay. I play them during classic but all necro's should re-roll in Luclin and beyond tbh.

PoSky needs a fix though, especially with the pet MOTM debuff, all a necro does during that raid is watch your pet hit for 6 dmg every 10th swing. miss miss miss miss 6 miss miss miss.

Fun fun.