EQ PVP Big Discussion Thread

Edited Post to include merged posts.
What follows is a list of major posts by players related to the merged threads.

https://massivelyop.com/2020/02/18/...test-to-agitate-for-a-pvp-progression-server/

https://www.mmobomb.com/news/everquest-players-planning-protest-pvp-progression-servers/

https://www.mmorpg.com/everquest/news/everquest-players-plan-protest-for-february-29-2000117278

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/555364542

https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/f5g379/raiding_zek_to_fight_for_a_pvp_server_join_us/

JOIN THE CRUSADE
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Let me preface this by saying that anyone returning to an EQ PvP TLP server knows what EQ PvP is about. We know that classes aren't balanced for 1v1's, we expect it. Group/Raid PvP balances out those issues. EQ PvP is about content control, and the group/raid PvP tactics that are exercised in order to maintain that control. We are players that want well done PvE, but want a little bit more challenge attached to it.

EQ Live once had four very successful and populated PvP servers. The crowd is out there that want, and will support this type of server. We want one server to relive the glory days like the PvE players have had many opportunities to do. Let us have our nostalgic server!

Why a PvP TLP server would succeed and be profitable for DBG:

1) It fixes all "Blue Problems"

a) Ground Spawns - No longer do you have 100 people sitting on ground spawns (VP Key Pieces) all attempting to block and grief each other for one spawn every 90 minutes. Guilds fight each other for said spawns, and to the victor go the spoils.

b) Box Army Krono Farmers - No longer do you have box armies perma-camping that rare item that you really want. You kill that box army and you take that spawn. No six man box army will (should) be able to kill six individually played characters.

c) Training - Someone tries to train you in a dungeon or on a raid mob? You root/snare/kill that person training you.

d) Kill Stealing - Someone shows up to steal your camp or mob? Battle them for the loot rights!

2) Krono Sales - If you thought people were willing to pay for an advantage on a blue server, wait until you see what people are willing to pay for an advantage on a PvP server. Krono will be worth more (A lot less krono farmers due to difficulty of boxing), and sell at a significantly faster rate.

3) Pulling in New Subscriptions:

I always see people comment on how few posts there are from the community in regards to wanting a PvP TLP server. What people don't seem to realize is that you need an All Access Pass subscription to post in these forums. The vast majority of the people that would play on a PvP TLP server do not have a subscription currently. I myself have been looking in for years, waiting for that PvP TLP server to pop up. I recently subscribed for nostalgia sakes to play on Agnarr, giving me the necessary tools to post. A PvP TLP Server means bringing in completely new subscriptions that never existed before, not merely holding on to old subscriptions by re-creating the "same" type of server over and over again. I also see a fair amount of blue players showing interest in trying a red server as well.

4) Red99 with almost no advertising launched with ~1000 unique accounts. An official server with the QoL changes that we have today alongside actual advertising should be able to bring in a significantly larger amount of subs.

5) Life Line - A lot of people make the argument that it may start strong but then fall off quickly as a few PvP servers in this genre have done before. A lot of the QoL tweaks DBG has made already abolish the main reasons that people would quit a PvP TLP Server. Those reasons are:

a) Unable to obtain pixels. What happens with every open world PvP server in any MMO? One guild, or one alliance becomes the powerhouse, monopolizes all raid targets and PvP gear. In EQ PvP gear is *almost* everything. As the server progresses the gear gap between the powerhouse guild/alliance and the rest of the server gets bigger and bigger. It becomes harder and harder for the majority of the server to stay competitive in a PvP scenario with the #1 guild on the server. As much as it pains me to say it, I suggest to leave the AoC's in as they are, on this PvP TLP Server. Raid items will still be obtained by lesser guilds, decreasing the gear gap and mainting competitive PvP from a loot stand point. The stronger guilds will still fight amongst themselves for the open world targets, allowing them to obtain more raid gear than lesser guilds, giving them a slight advantage (That they deserve) over the instance-only guilds.

b) PvP Creates Content - What happens on most Blue TLP servers, especially in the Classic and Kunark eras? People quit. Three months is too long and too boring in those eras. Not on a PvP server. PvP is content. Group PvP in dungeons over items, and raid scale PvP over open world raid targets is it's own content.

c) Gear means more. You know that useless 2her that has no real meaning on a blue TLP server? Well, it's BiS on a PvP TLP Server. There's so many items I see dropping on Agnarr that are close to useless that would have a significant impact on a Red server. Tantor's Tusk, Dathor Hammer, PoM Resistance Flowers (All resist gear really), Damage Shield Items, Dispell Clickies, Defensive AA's for classes that typically don't rely on defense, Insta-Clickies, etc.

d) Corpse Runs - Not a thing on live EQ. No more griefing nakeds attempting to retrieve their corpse.


However, there are however a few issues that I believe would need to be ironed out if we wanted a truly successful PvP TLP server.

a) Zone Dancing - Zone dancing was common practice on a live server. If you were in trouble in PvP you ran for a zone line, and danced across it until your opponent got bored, or you were inevtiably forced to "plug pull". Other open world PvP games that have zone lines have remedied this by not allowing players to zone if they've been in combat for X amount of seconds. I'm not sure if this is the solution for EQ, but something would need to be thought out.

b) Zone Plug Pulling - If a character goes offline while zoning an LD character should appear on the other side of the zone that can be killed if said player disconnected their internet intentionally to avoid a PvP Death (This is what used to happened on live back in the day). On R99 you simply go offline while zoning and avoid death. This is a huge problem with their server, and a big reason as to why it did not succeed.

c) FFA +/- 8 Levels with flagging to prevent "immortal healing" from lower level characters out of PvP Range. I would personally love a teams or faction server, but I feel like it would take too much dev time to create one that would function without a severe amount of griefing. An FFA server ensures an even playing field with race and class combinations, and with a +/- 8 Level range it limits high levels ability to grief lower levels, and with the addition of flagging lower level characters into the range of a character above their level bracket it prevents people from healing high level characters with a low level priest class.

d) PvP Death - Respawn at your Origin, not your bind. Sixty second no PvP combat flag applied to prevent respawn camping/rushing. Guards also typically assist in PvP, which will help with bind camping as well.

I'm hoping that this new "hardcore" server is somehow PvP related. In the case that it isn't, I truly hope they consider a PvP TLP server some point soon. I understand that we're a niche of a niche, but I truly believe that it would be profitable, and that it could succeed with the right rule set attached.

Please, let our niche have our nostalgic server!

That is a well written waste of time you got there. Good luck.

PvP in EQ is terrible.

Earth getting hit by an asteroid is terrible
EQ PvP is down right atrocious

I scrolled through your post and instantly felt terrible. You must have put a lot of thought and time into this post. I felt bad because there is 0% chance that your idea is implemented.

I would love a pvp tlp server. It's kinda silly that they won't even try it once.

because maybe less then 1% of the people that still play this game would ever play on a TLP PVP server that is why they would not even try it once...

EQ PVP IS A JOKE ALWAYS HAS ALWAYS WILL BE GET OVER IT ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!

I bet considerably more than 1% would try it. Most of them never played on pvp, and the customer service demands would be enormous as people bored of TLP clone #7 found out what pvp is like in EQ for the first time. The DBG staff is well aware of this, which is why it will never happen.

People who want to relive the "glory days" of EQPvP are pretty much the same as people who want to relive the "glory days" of EQPvE.

There's no going back, you either experienced it the first time when it was all new or you missed it.

Was that ever a thing?

Thanks I know that it is likely falling on deaf ears (eyes).

It took all of five minutes give or take to put together, not exactly time consuming. It's all relatively common sense, and I'm surprised that these points haven't been brought up from my fellow PvP fans before.

It's true that you probably won't see a lot of current players try a PvP TLP server. This is about pulling in new subscriptions. The most popular computer games out there, MMO's included, are PvP based, or offer a viable PvP option. To not pull from this population in some way is a colossal mistake, for any game, new or old. They won't lose any players because they started a PvP TLP, just the opposite. The PvE crowd will keep on going, just as they have, especially if they were to launch a PvE TLP alongside it.

The PvE TLP population is already split between far too many servers. How many times do you really want to keep starting over, segmenting your population, playing nearly the same version of the same game time and time again?

Let's mix it up, try something that hasn't been tried for many many years!

A while back I amused some people when I made reference to 54 wizard murder squads....you are living in a fantasy world if you think you're just going to "kill" boxed armies.

EQ pvp was actually pretty great if you were good at it. There are so many layers to open world pvp, the average blue player just isn't up to handling it. They'd try it out, get splattered, and call pvp broken.

Knowing the logistics of zone traverse, class mechanics, aa's, gear, terrain, cooldowns & timers, what is effective or not effective in variable situations.. all stuff you need to not only know, but understand. Not like the ai of a mob who just chases you til they die, or you do.

If they ever did do a pvp tlp, it would likely only have the best, most knowledgeable of players on it. Maybe the top 15%. Not sure that would make enough money, but sure would be fun

I say do it.

Let me preface my critique by saying I have and would enjoy PVP servers. I agree on all your points that it adds a LOT to the game to make it more fun and exciting.

There are few posts because it really is a less desired option. Your premise is incorrect as I am posting here without an All Access Pass.

Of the people that actually do express interest it would be a "you think you do, but you don't" thing. The playerbase would drop of exponentially after launch as people got a real taste for EQ PVP.

Red99 is actually a great case study in why NOT to do an Everquest PVP server and why it probably won't happen. PVP servers are Customer Service nightmares. The GMs often complained about spending more than half their time arbitrating a server with 10% the population of blue. PVP servers attract weaponized autism. There are too many ways to greif (training, corpse camping) and no mechanics within EQ to remedy them without involving Daybreak written rules which then have to be enforced with suspensions/bans against paid subscribers. It is an inefficient use of Daybreak's already limited resources.

The solution is a server where training and corpse camping is legal as far as DB is concerned.

Such a server might well get over a thousand lookie-loo’s on day one. I’d be shocked if it had a couple hundred left a month later.

A server like that would bomb so hard lol... you realize there is a tiny, insignificant fraction of the eq population that would actually enjoy that?

I played on a pvp server back in the day and it was exciting for like a week, but after the 50th time you die while fighting something, or while regenning after a fight.. it gets real old real fast

The classes are also incredibly imbalanced in terms of EQ.. classes like Shadow Knights basically rule, and when you add in the people who use 3rd party software and multibox, they would have their own little army to go around ruining everyone’s time

There would probly be bots people park at someone’s corpse to make it so they can’t even play the game anymore

This server would die off super fast and wouldn’t generate enough money to be profitable

I completely overlooked this point in mine. Daybreak would be forced to actively monitor and intervene against people using 3rd party software adding to the CS nightmare.

Then again... if they took a total "hands off" approach it might be fun to run around as a lvl 1 gnome watching the 60 bot armies go to war with each other.

I find it hard to argue the profitability when all the PVP servers had to merge and the one left is pretty much dead. Maybe for a special limited event server or something it could be fun, but long term the playerbase didn’t embrace it.

EQ pvp was fun as hell. some of the best experiences I have ever had in gaming. If you played blue and say eq pvp is terrible you really have no idea. However, the gaming world has changed. EQ pvp would be a mess now, because people would just train and kill you. The online gaming world is much more toxic and different than it ever was back in 1999 / 2000.